Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovade
Why aren't you saying the same thing about Max? It has been reported Max didn't want to drive against Lewis in a Redbull either.
It’s funny that you even say this. Redbull has never fielded a competitive teammate against Max, compared to Lewis who arguably has the greatest competition of teammates ever (multiple WDC winners).
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Well, first of all Ham never raced against Ros as a world champ (nor does it count in your history of teammates if you never raced against the guy AS a reigning WDC champ) - Ros beat ham and retired, so he was never a WDC WHEN they raced. The simple fact that he lost to a driver who was as mediocre as Ros says a lot. Then they signed Bot who Ham loved because he wasnt very good and would invert or move over every time they asked him (which happened quite often). He got all of the upgrades when Alo didnt and surely was favored at Mclaren and still only won due to a cheating scandal the FIA covered up. Then, until he obtained his 80-100 hp advantage in the most dominant car in F1 history, he got smokes by Vet for 4 years straight, and I dont rank Vet all that highly.
Max has mostly all top rated ex teammates - and most of his teammates are considered some of the better talent on the grid - Sai, Alb, Gas. Sai is arguably to most a top 3-5 driver and Alb is right up there too. Sai is certainly better than Rus, But, Bot, Ros. All in all, other than Alo, Ham has not had a teammate I would rate all that highly. Beyond that, Ham always had trouble keeping mediocre talent behind him and never really pulled away from them - the gaps were not very big. Max on the other hand has destroyed all of his teammates so badly they never get anywhere close to him.
He destroyed Sai when he was just a rookie and Sai an F1 veteran.
Max then raced against Ric (who, at the time was quite good and better than Ros, But, and Bot) and was at the top of his game and one of the top 2 or 3 drivers when Max came into F1. He then beat Ric into submission and he ran away scared. Then game Gas, who got destroyed, then Alb and then Per. It doesnt matter who is against Max. He has shown in slow cars what he can do, and in a good car he has shown he not only can win at a faster clip than the MB could (despite not having ANY advantage except him driving the car). Max has though 9 seasons only had a good car for 2.5 of them, yet 3 WDCs, and got to 100 podiums and 60 wins faster than Ham could. That alone tells you all you need to know. Ham, it took 10 years in the best car, and most of them in the most dominant car to do it.
Max, in a slower car, put down Ham in 2021 and then flat out embarrassed him the last 2 years. Beating him in a slower car alone is quite the start to his legacy. Meanwhile, Ham has a hard time beating a very, very average Rus.
I would also argue that Max's WDCs have more weight to them. He beat a faster MB in 2021, and then in the most competitive era of F1 ever seen - closest and most competitive field in history, budget caps, limited/restricted testing for top teams - this has been about who is driving the best and to do it in the way Max has (records galore) it is more impressive. When Ham won with MB there was literally no competition after the MB car. The rest of the field was so far away that it wasnt even racing. There was little to no skill or talent involved in winning in that car as witnessed by Ros winning a WDC, and so I would devalue any WDC won during that period. And once that massive power advantage was lost, the true skill of Ham, or lackthere of showed in spades as well as the reappearance of his dirty and amateur level driving when faced with wheel to wheel action. A guy who hasnt won in nearly 3 years despite having a top 2 or 3 car and often times, Toto claiming they had the fastest car on track.
To me Ham is very much like Lebron James. The numbers Lebron has from just a punchline perspective look good, but then you dive into them you realize that they arent really that impressive all things considered. Michael Jordan only played 14 NBA seasons whereas Lebron took 21 season to beat his numbers and Lebron even with super teams still lost in 6 NBA finals (never could carry a team to victory) whereas MJ won all 6 he went to. His stats arent based on greatness, just longevity. Then you look at a guy like Luka Doncik, and through 1300 NBA games, his stats are WAY better than Lebron's were in points score, rebounds, assists, and his shoot averages are a good bit better.