[G30M]

[Ugly Kar]

I still just don't get the Miata. Just because it doesn't have to be powerful to be fun doesn't mean it has to be under-powered either. So you build a build a sportscar that's slower than most of your premium SUV's. It makes no sense.

I bet most Miata drivers have never driven their car on a track. And on the street, quick acceleration from a light is almost as important as going around corners fast for enthusiasts. This thing would sell like hotcakes it they put the 2.5 turbo in it, and imagine the 3.3 inline 6 in it. Wow. They could probably undercut the Supra by $15-$20k and sell 3x as many.

[erickonphoenix]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I still just don't get the Miata. Just because it doesn't have to be powerful to be fun doesn't mean it has to be under-powered either. So you build a build a sportscar that's slower than most of your premium SUV's. It makes no sense.

I bet most Miata drivers have never driven their car on a track. And on the street, quick acceleration from a light is almost as important as going around corners fast for enthusiasts. This thing would sell like hotcakes it they put the 2.5 turbo in it, and imagine the 3.3 inline 6 in it. Wow. They could probably undercut the Supra by $15-$20k and sell 3x as many.

Great point. Back in the late 90s a buddy and I shared ownership of a Miata race car. It was fun but not that great. I'd have rather done it with a C4 Corvette. We still joke about trying it again with a BRZ but then we remember how expensive just tracking the Miata was.

[Littlecoupe]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I still just don't get the Miata. Just because it doesn't have to be powerful to be fun doesn't mean it has to be under-powered either. So you build a build a sportscar that's slower than most of your premium SUV's. It makes no sense.

I bet most Miata drivers have never driven their car on a track. And on the street, quick acceleration from a light is almost as important as going around corners fast for enthusiasts. This thing would sell like hotcakes it they put the 2.5 turbo in it, and imagine the 3.3 inline 6 in it. Wow. They could probably undercut the Supra by $15-$20k and sell 3x as many.

I don't disagree, but the ethos of the Miata is balance. As it is designed, the Miata is very well balanced and easy to drive at the limit. More power would make the car a lot more difficult to drive fast. To maintain the balance, you'd need a lot added for suspension, tires, and brakes.

I am curious, apples to apples, how the S2000 was for balance compared to the Miata. I recall the AP1's had issues with snap oversteer. But was it as balanced on track as the Miata? It definitely had more power at high RPM, albeit a piddly amount of torque. I think you can only put so much power into a very lightweight RWD chassis before it becomes a handful.

[NickyC]

Would have liked to have seen a G87 in there.

[Alfisti]

I hear ya on the Miata but it's a very, very tricky subject. First there's the cost issue but even putting that aside and putting aside "more power makes it harder to drive", it's a small light car, you add weight pretty much anywhere and it can quickly wreck the ethos of the thing. More weight and power means you need more tyre, more brakes etc etc.... things spiral. A turbo is off the table, weight aside it would ruin the experience.

Increasingly capacity on the 4 bangers means they run out of lungs, go up to 6 cylinders and it doesn't work. I've said before, Mazda and Alfa should merge, there's a similar sort of karma around the two marques and I think Alfa would inject more power and more character from a 2.2 litre NA 4 banger than Mazda.

[Davil]

It was slightly humerous when you heard the commentary about accidentally bumping a button in the Miata due to lack of space then cue to footage of the driver making the comment. Well yes. There might be a reason for this.

[M2.ks]

I am surprised there was not a BMW in this years test. Perhaps the new m5 would have disappointed with the added weight. The m4 cs however would of been interesting.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by M2.ks

I am surprised there was not a BMW in this years test. Perhaps the new m5 would have disappointed with the added weight. The m4 cs however would of been interesting.

Maybe they couldn't get one on that day

[BlkGS]

Miatas are the vinyl records of the car world. We all know they're not that great, and that the alternatives are better in like, every way, but they pull people back to a time before cars were fast. Everyone knows they're not as good, but their proponents will use unquantifiable benefits like "poise" and "warmth".

The S2000 was like a Miata that didn't suck.

[Jodedor]

Two electric cars in that lineup...IIRC.

If the miata has the same 2.4 from a BRZ or a slight bump in displacement, it would be an improvement without sacrificing a lot.

Mazda in tentionally doesnt put wider rubber on the car because they want the car to "feel" playful.

I liked last years lineup better.

[Mech Spec]

Not on the electric car bandwagon by any means but holy moly a 2:40 from the Air Sapphire is searing.

[Jodedor]

Originally Posted by IanH

Not on the electric car bandwagon by any means but holy moly a 2:40 from the Air Sapphire is searing.

It is amazing how much power and torque can be put down for less than internal combustion.

However, I can not drive a car without a soul. It needs to have some drama.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

This thing would sell like hotcakes it they put the 2.5 turbo in it, and imagine the 3.3 inline 6 in it.

I have the 2.5 turbo in a mazda3 sedan. 250 hp/320 lb-ft, a good engine for commuting, but not very fun. Not sure it fits the character of the Miata.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Jodedor

It is amazing how much power and torque can be put down for less than internal combustion.

However, I can not drive a car without a soul. It needs to have some drama.

EV vehicles have literally no limits to their output. No emissions controls, no CAFE, nothing. They could make 20,000 HP if they wanted to. Honestly the fact that none of the real companies (or not rimac or some other niche brand) hasn't gone well over 1000hp is surprising. There's genuinely nothing stopping them from it. And they can just do some programming to limit the output to boost traction.

You can make boatloads of power in an ICE car, but you have to emissions it and you have to deal with fuel economy requirements and all that. Still, getting stuff like the V8 ZR1 with 1000hp is pretty crazy. Getting a 1000hp Chevy with a warranty is kinda mind boggling.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

EV vehicles have literally no limits to their output. No emissions controls, no CAFE, nothing. They could make 20,000 HP if they wanted to. Honestly the fact that none of the real companies (or not rimac or some other niche brand) hasn't gone well over 1000hp is surprising. There's genuinely nothing stopping them from it. And they can just do some programming to limit the output to boost traction.

You can make boatloads of power in an ICE car, but you have to emissions it and you have to deal with fuel economy requirements and all that. Still, getting stuff like the V8 ZR1 with 1000hp is pretty crazy. Getting a 1000hp Chevy with a warranty is kinda mind boggling.

There are limits, the boundaries of the limits are pushed over time with new technologies. For EV, the heat management is a big deal, brakes are a big deal , weight is a big deal. You can't just go 20,000hp, because you'll melt down the wiring/windings, etc. Same with ICE, to reliably make 1000hp takes a lot of development and technology. Also limits of what tires can handle. Sure, joe-dirt can get a supercharger and try to make more HP, but the cylinders, fuel pumps, cooling, injectors, crankshaft, and on and on, need to be rated for it. For some of the crazy euro cars like Bugatti's and Ferrari's that make around "1000hp", you should see their maintenance schedule and required parts to "ensure" they stay reliable. In other words, it's like upkeep on the space shuttle vs. a cessna 172. And when you are delivering that much gas that fast or under that much pressure, you create some pretty big fire hazards of your own, as in things can go bad real fast. Gas will never be "dirt cheap" and economy will always matter. It may matter less in some situations, but it won't fly right out the window. People want to maximize value so they can spend money in other areas, that's why they shop at costco, etc. There will always be the pressure to deliver maximum economy and performance.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

There are limits, the boundaries of the limits are pushed over time with new technologies. For EV, the heat management is a big deal, brakes are a big deal , weight is a big deal. You can't just go 20,000hp, because you'll melt down the wiring/windings, etc. Same with ICE, to reliably make 1000hp takes a lot of development and technology. Also limits of what tires can handle. Sure, joe-dirt can get a supercharger and try to make more HP, but the cylinders, fuel pumps, cooling, injectors, crankshaft, and on and on, need to be rated for it. For some of the crazy euro cars like Bugatti's and Ferrari's that make around "1000hp", you should see their maintenance schedule and required parts to "ensure" they stay reliable. In other words, it's like upkeep on the space shuttle vs. a cessna 172. And when you are delivering that much gas that fast or under that much pressure, you create some pretty big fire hazards of your own, as in things can go bad real fast. Gas will never be "dirt cheap" and economy will always matter. It may matter less in some situations, but it won't fly right out the window. People want to maximize value so they can spend money in other areas, that's why they shop at costco, etc. There will always be the pressure to deliver maximum economy and performance.

I had a whole big long post with a buncha detail and then I refreshed and lost it, so here's cliffs notes (do they have that still? Am I showing my age saying that?) lol.

Locomotives.have electric motors making 3000-10000 HP, off the shelf stuff that would make a shitty car, but probably still better than a Vinfast

E85 has made 1000hp.pretty safe in boosted applications. No shortage of blower let alone turbo coyotes or LS motors making 1000hp on E85. The limitation really is emissions standards and fuel economy standards for OEMs. Pretty sure GTRs and a few others regularly make that kind of power on corn fuel. All of which without the insanity that is Bugatti or Ferrari ownership costs. Part of me thinks the exotics are intentionally expensive to service and own because the people who buy them new love to brag about how expensive they are to upkeep.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I still just don't get the Miata. Just because it doesn't have to be powerful to be fun doesn't mean it has to be under-powered either. So you build a build a sportscar that's slower than most of your premium SUV's. It makes no sense.

I bet most Miata drivers have never driven their car on a track. And on the street, quick acceleration from a light is almost as important as going around corners fast for enthusiasts. This thing would sell like hotcakes it they put the 2.5 turbo in it, and imagine the 3.3 inline 6 in it. Wow. They could probably undercut the Supra by $15-$20k and sell 3x as many.

I never got the Miata. It's slow, lame, and nothing about it inspires me. It seems everyone likes the Miata for no other reason than everyone else likes the Miata. It's wild to me this car has 181 hp, 3 more hp than it had over 20 years ago. Pass, pass, pass...

[Alfisti]

THe Miata is a vehicle I have been critical of in terms of my own preferences but it does serve a purpose. First and foremost you need the right roads, ideally ones with a lot of bends but you can still average about 40MPH or so.

The car handles in a lovely way and is in essence the modern day cheap roadster, not a sports car, a roadster.

For shits and giggles what does the engine weight and what did the last of BMW's NA straight 6's weigh, the smallest one, the 2.5.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by IanH

Not on the electric car bandwagon by any means but holy moly a 2:40 from the Air Sapphire is searing.

But its battery can only manage one lap as I recall.

[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

But its battery can only manage one lap as I recall.

Yep, and its literally never going to be comparable to a gas car for an electric car.

Gasoline has 100x the energy density of current battery tech. Even though gas engines are far less efficient, there is just no way that an electric car will ever be capable of being used at 75%+ of its output for more than a short period of time.

[414bhp]

Did you all watch the laps from the Ford F150 racing truck? The speed of that thing is nuts!