[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

And I’ll repeat myself. Things work better when you read all of the words. Regardless of your sources, which I really don’t care about because, ……”side issue”.

It is a side issue. If electric cars were less efficient than gas cars, and cost more to operate, I would still drive electric. After driving an EV, the gas car feels archaic, and laggy in everyday driving situations. Like I said, just look at post on the M5/Taycan comparison. The Taycan leaves the M5 in the dust in real world acceleration, and killed it on the road course too. Actually that Taycan beat any road-going factory stock BMW around the Nurburgring too. So if you just want to "feel" and "sound" fast, stay with your ICE car. Besides, its always fun listening to the loud gas cars struggling next to an EV.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

It is a side issue. If electric cars were a less efficient than gas cars, and cost more to operate, I would still drive electric. After driving an EV, the gas car feels archaic, and laggy in everyday driving situations. Like I said, just look at post on the M5/Taycan comparison. The Taycan leaves the M5 in the dust in real world acceleration, and killed it on the road course too. Actually that Taycan beat any road-going factory stock BMW around the Nurburgring too. So if you just want to "feel" and "sound" fast, stay with your ICE car. Besides, its always fun listening to the loud gas cars struggling next to an EV.

Most EV have 1-speed manual transmissions, which makes them less laggy than an automatic ICEV. A properly-driven ICEV manual is not laggy.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Good for you

And good for you. I'm glad you are content with the vehicles you have.
I previously had new ICE BMW's 2005 M3Conv, 2006 M3 Coupe, 2007 335 sedan, 2008 335i Sedan and Coupe, 2011 335d, (5)2014-2019 i3s, and my 2023 i4 M50. The i3s really made me realize the virtues of electric cars, and the M50 is just a great all around and practical fun to drive car. Like the majority of current EV owners, I don't plan on going back to combustion power.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Car is hideous
Just wait till they take that camouflage off

This comment is basically says everything about where we are today with chronic internet outrage and negativity that serves to primarily bolster one's own sense of self. Haven't even seen the finished product but has already concluded the car is hideous. This opinion will not change no matter how good the finished product ends up because being positive and seeing the beauty in things doesn't provide a cheap high like expressed outrage.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

This comment is basically says everything about where we are today with chronic internet outrage and negativity that serves to primarily bolster one's own sense of self. Haven't even seen the finished product but has already concluded the car is hideous. This opinion will not change no matter how good the finished product ends up because being positive and seeing the beauty in things doesn't provide a cheap high like expressed outrage.

Nah I just don’t like it … at all

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Most EV have 1-speed manual transmissions, which makes them less laggy than an automatic ICEV. A properly-driven ICEV manual is not laggy.

That's a particularly interesting take. Because most manual equipped cars are considerably slower through the quarter mile, and get worse gas mileage than their automated counterparts. There is a reason why the quickest Porsches/Ferrari's have automated gear boxes. And and manual transmission F1 car would be uncompetitive. But many on here seem to think that only real cars, and real drivers, use manual transmissions!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

That's a particularly interesting take. Because most manual equipped cars are considerably slower through the quarter mile, and get worse gas mileage than their automated counterparts. There is a reason why the quickest Porsches/Ferrari's have automated gear boxes. And and manual transmission F1 car would be uncompetitive. But many on here seem to think that only real cars, and real drivers, use manual transmissions!

When it comes to enthusiasts with a passion for an analog/connected/involved experience, then yes, real drivers seek manuals.

A vibrator is far more efffcient/effective at causing an orgasm than any man, yet, women would prefer the less effective, but far more stimulating/involved/tactile experience that comes with being with a man.

It’s not always about going from point A to point B, but rather the journey in between.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

When it comes to enthusiasts with a passion for an analog/connected/involved experience, then yes, real drivers seek manuals.

A vibrator is far more efffcient/effective at causing an orgasm than any man, yet, women would prefer the less effective, but far more stimulating/involved/tactile experience that comes with being with a man.

It’s not always about going from point A to point B, but rather the journey in between.

I guess F1 drivers aren't real men like yourself?. Ironically its the gas engine that is more likely to produce the vibrator effect than a smooth and quiet EV motor, lol. I guess real men might prefer to have gas powered can openers, shavers, and blenders, especially since they can change their own oil. There is hardly anything superior about a gasoline engine compared to an EV motor.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I guess F1 drivers aren't real men like yourself?. The gas engine is more likely to vibrator effect than a smooth and quiet EV motor, lol. Real men might like gas powered can openers, shavers, and blenders, especially so they can change their own oil. There is hardly anything superior about a gasoline engine compared to an EV motor.

Set the defensiveness aside and read what I typed again. I am in no way referring to knife edge professionals who need to extracts tenth of seconds in a controlled race environment with million dollar technology in multi-million dollar race cars. I’m talking about us regular enthusiasts. There is nothing analog nor tactile about an EV, nor is it rewarding to drive fast.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

That's a particularly interesting take. Because most manual equipped cars are considerably slower through the quarter mile, and get worse gas mileage than their automated counterparts. There is a reason why the quickest Porsches/Ferrari's have automated gear boxes. And and manual transmission F1 car would be uncompetitive. But many on here seem to think that only real cars, and real drivers, use manual transmissions!

You missed my point entirely.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Set the defensiveness aside and read what I typed again. I am in no way referring to knife edge professionals who need to extracts tenth of seconds in a controlled race environment with million dollar technology in multi-million dollar race cars. I’m talking about us regular enthusiasts. There is nothing analog nor tactile about an EV, nor is it rewarding to drive fast.

Like I said, there are those that like to feel like they are going fast, and those that actually like to be fast. For the former, a Civic or early Miata with a loud exhaust, with a better shifter and much less weight than a BMW might provide the best "feel." How about the fact that there are also those that feel a horse drawn carriage provides a better experience than your gas car?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Like I said, there are those that like to feel like they are going fast, and those that actually like to be fast. For the former, a Civic or early Miata with a loud exhaust, with a better shifter and much less weight than a BMW might provide the best "feel." How about the fact that there are also those that feel a horse drawn carriage provides a better experience than your gas car?

You absolutely missed the point…….not once, but twice. Not once did I mention speed, the feeling of speed, etc. being an integral part of the manual experience at all. Nobody who knows anything about cars chooses a manual because it’s the absolute quickest way to shift. You’re merely responding to be contrary rather than paying attention to the merits I mentioned regarding manual transmissions.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You absolutely missed the point…….not once, but twice. Not once did I mention speed, the feeling of speed, etc. being an integral part of the manual experience at all. Nobody who knows anything about cars chooses a manual because it’s the absolute quickest way to shift. You’re merely responding to be contrary rather than paying attention to the merits I mentioned regarding manual transmissions.

I've ridden in a few horse drawn carriages, they have no lag. Horses have a relatively flat torque curve in relationship to percent-of-stride.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've ridden in a few horse drawn carriages, they have no lag. Horses have a relatively flat torque curve in relationship to percent-of-stride.

So again, even if the horse has a flat torque curve, it was no match for the combustion engine. Just like the combustion engine is no match for an electric motor. A 469HP Lucid Sapphire motor weighs just 70 lbs. Can you imagine a gas powered car doing 0-200mph in one gear? You would have to take off in 5th gear or higher, and definitely wouldn't be getting a 2 second 0-60 time. There are always those who hang on to the nostalgia. Just like the pilots who love a light weight propeller plane that is full of noise, vibration, and feel. Meanwhile, most of the higher performance needs are met with smoother, faster, jet engine powered aircraft.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

So again, even if the horse has a flat torque curve, it was no match for the combustion engine. Just like the combustion engine is no match for an electric motor. A 469HP Lucid Sapphire motor weighs just 70 lbs. Can you imagine a gas powered car doing 0-200mph in one gear? You would have to take off in 5th gear or higher, and definitely wouldn't be getting a 2 second 0-60 time. There are always those who hang on to the nostalgia. Just like the pilots who love a light weight propeller plane that is full of noise, vibration, and feel. Meanwhile, most of the higher performance needs are met with smoother, faster, jet engine powered aircraft.

Humor escapes you.

[ubercruise]

I really don't understand why every EV-specific thread has to get bombarded with people telling everyone why they hate EVs. It just clutters up the thread every time and gets away from the topic - just stick to threads about things that actually interest you. Not that there can't be dissenting opinion on a topic, or even reasonable skepticism, but it just devolves into "ICE is better in every single way, EVs are the dumbest thing ever" and vice versa, every single time. Wonder if there can just be an "i" or EV-specific general forum so people who passionately dislike EVs can just avoid it. Otherwise you just get everyone with an unrelenting opinion bickering at each other back and forth cause they're set in their ways. This would apply as well to EV folks going into ICE threads saying how ICE is stupid or something (if that happens - I don't peruse ICE threads because I don't currently own an ICE BMW and don't have as much interest in one currently).

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ubercruise

I really don't understand why every EV-specific thread has to get bombarded with people telling everyone why they hate EVs. It just clutters up the thread every time and gets away from the topic - just stick to threads about things that actually interest you. Not that there can't be dissenting opinion on a topic, or even reasonable skepticism, but it just devolves into "ICE is better in every single way, EVs are the dumbest thing ever" and vice versa, every single time. Wonder if there can just be an "i" or EV-specific general forum so people who passionately dislike EVs can just avoid it. Otherwise you just get everyone with an unrelenting opinion bickering at each other back and forth cause they're set in their ways. This would apply as well to EV folks going into ICE threads saying how ICE is stupid or something (if that happens - I don't peruse ICE threads because I don't currently own an ICE BMW and don't have as much interest in one currently).

The EV I'd like to see from BMW is a 3-series sized RWD sedan with 425 miles of range and gets 145 MPG, and weighs in around 4,200 pounds. And priced between $45K to $50K MSRP. And a 200-mile recovery in 20 minutes.

Lucid almost makes that car now, except it's 5-Series sized and costs $70,000. The Air Pure can be had until the end of this month at $60,400 if you are a current BMW owner. What BMW offers at the moment is a ICEV platform conversion. I mostly like the exterior styling of the Neue Klass sedan with its big E30'ish greenhouse. The interior is too Tesla EV'ish (this again is where Lucid leads BMW). I always found the Lincoln MKZ an attractive sedan.

[ubercruise]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The EV I'd like to see from BMW is a 3-series sized RWD sedan with 425 miles of range and gets 145 MPG, and weighs in around 4,200 pounds. And priced between $45K to $50K MSRP. And a 200-mile recovery in 20 minutes.

Lucid almost makes that car now, except it's 5-Series sized and costs $70,000. The Air Pure can be had until the end of this month at $60,400 if you are a current BMW owner. What BMW offers at the moment is a ICEV platform conversion. I mostly like the exterior styling of the Neue Klass sedan with its big E30'ish greenhouse. The interior is too Tesla EV'ish (this again is where Lucid leads BMW). I always found the Lincoln MKZ an attractive sedan.

The NK i3 I believe should be pretty close to those specs. I don't know about weight though, I think the current i4 minimum is 4600lbs so 4200 may be doable if the next gen battery/powertrain is more energy dense, and should help that it's a ground-up EV platform. The current BEV sedans share with ICE; the iX is CLAR-adjacent but does not share with an ICE platform, though the iX5 that will replace it will unfortunately be CLAR and sharing with the ICE X5 (same for the (i)X7).

I'm pretty keen on seeing where the actual specs land on the i3 and iX3. I agree that Lucid seems to lead in the efficiency department currently.

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

hotrod182, at this point you are really making yourself look stupid!!! You should quit while you’re behind.

He's not stupid, but here is my take. Spend enough time driving performance EVs and you will naturally start to replace those visceral emotions tied to MT engagement, exhaust notes, revs, smells etc. with new experiences built on the things that an EV does better. Those moments of passing instantly, leaving the line like a banshee, gleefully driving past every gas station etc. can be enough to have a replacement effect. Humans instinctively adapt to change - as we get older and look back, most of us can remember a feeling or a stance on something at the time you were deadly certain you would never change your perspective on. It's ok to hang on to these emotions for life, but also recognize others have moved on and arguing what's best is futile. Especially when tied to subjective visceral feels, whatever the source of those may be.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by ubercruise

I really don't understand why every EV-specific thread has to get bombarded with people telling everyone why they hate EVs.

These guys are completely insufferable and must be miserable to be around.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

I think 1300 hp and peak torque all the time are way more exhilarating than any sound any car can make.

Where is 1300hp exhilarating?

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Where is 1300hp exhilarating?

Wherever you decide to give the car full throttle. If less is better, get a car with 130HP instead of 1300HP. You will save money with your sound decision making.