[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by NSXR

How about I answer that question with a question.

How many engines have you rebuilt?

How many BMW's do you own?

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Mech Spec

How many BMW's do you own?

Shouldn't that be how many cylinders?

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I don't think you can make a blanket "no it doesn't cause premature wear" statement. All AS/S systems are not equal, and this system in Jeeps was causing a lot of issues with the starters, secondary battery & primary battery.

First hand experience in a brand new '23 Grand Cherokee L Summit my wife ordered the auto stop/stop didn't work from the day we picked up the vehicle. Secondary battery replaced, still didn't work. Kept giving warning lights in the cluster. Only thing dealer could do was shut off warning lights & say "maybe they'll release a software update to fix that down the road".

We traded the Jeep (our 10th Jeep) 9 months after we purchased it due to constant software & systems issues.

You can find evidence of other issues related to auto stop/start across all brands.

Our just evidence that that specific vehicle had quality/engineering issues with software or other systems. I am not seeing evidence of premature starter or cylinder wear in this situation. For all anyone knows, there was an issue in the harness with a specific wire or connector. Or a defective component. Few mechanics are equipped to do that sort of circuit analysis. It requires specialized knowledge and time, which under warranty is the dealers problem.

[x622]

Originally Posted by NSXR

How about I answer that question with a question.

How many engines have you rebuilt?

You aren't gonna convince them NSXR. Fundamental lack of knowledge in how basic engine operations work paired with hubris from "reading what experts say" and taking it as gospel. Yes the starter motors are different, yes the ignition is slightly different to accommodate it, but in the end you are correct. Pair that with the super thin oil that most manufacturers use in the pursuit of fuel economy and you can see the direct results of this.

Trying to explain this to them is like trying to explain why so many old Hondas and Toyotas—like the 1JZ, 2JZ, 3S-GTE, 2ZZ, 1GR, 3UR, 1UZ, 2AR, B18s, H22s, F22s, K-series, J32s, C30s—just keep running, even under high stress. These engines were built right: they have integrated oil squirters, run cool, and last forever for their size. Modern engines just don’t compare. Oil is the blood of the engine—and every time you stop that flow, even for a second, you're scraping wear onto the cylinder walls. They won’t get it.

While we're at it can we please run a lil' thicker oil so these engines last a little longer? 0w20 is junk.

[DrVenture]

The most fundamental aspect of science is that you develop a theory based on what you know, then test that theory by eliminating all unnecessary variables. Basically showing a specific outcome that can be solely attributed to this function. Unless someone has done that, we are still in the "theory" stage, regardless of what we know about engines. Dunning-Krueger comes to mind here.

A single manufacturers implementation of this feature, in a specific model even, is not proof of anything. One would need to show that in any/all implementations it is more problem than solution. Or else, it is a specific engineering failure in a specific application.

We all agree that it can be annoying, and should be default to off on start-up, if desired. So, we don't need to go any further, or jump to unsupported conclusions. If the EPA incentive requires it to default to "on", that could be changed, or the incentive eliminated entirely.

Put another way, people who "know everything" about chemistry or pharmaceuticals, still run blind studies and even after approvals, new outcomes are discovered. sometimes bad outcomes. It is the same in every other field. It is never about what you know, only what can be demonstrated and proven. Anything else, is more about the believer, than the topic. A ways back, someone asked for proof/evidence, all that has been offered is theory.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by NSXR

Shouldn't that be how many cylinders?

Six!! In a straight line!!! For twenty years now!! I don’t need or WANT no stinkin’ V8 ever again!!!

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Six!! In a straight line!!! For twenty years now!! I don’t need or WANT no stinkin’ V8 ever again!!!

Someday you'll be able to have a big boy engine.

[BlkGS]

Taking away the incentive to include it is the right move. Eliminating CAFE targets established recently is the right move. Unfortunately, our disposable approach to products has permeated so deep that we as a society don't see the value in keeping things running. We have become so used to buying some cheap product made across the world from us by children and/or slaves for little or no money that we no longer see a need to have things that last

We sell people on the idea that they should buy a new "cleaner" car for the environment then totally ignore that keeping their old car running for another 10 years and not producing a new car to replace it is WAY better environmentally.

In the end, it's all about money. If you could buy a phone that'd last you 10 years, and software wasn't designed with bloat intended to make your old one run too slow, you wouldn't buy the new iPhone 245. And that lack of a continual upgrade cycle hurts profits.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Someday you'll be able to have a big boy engine.

Dude, I was driving a big block V8 before you were born!!

[qx]

For those that leave it in but occasionally get annoyed at say a left turn, check your manual or try pressing the brake slightly further after coming to a complete stop, which on my 2013 temporarily disable the feature.

I do have a question about it, however. When the PCV valve in my n55 failed among other vacuum leaks, before I had diagnosed the engine troubles, it idled quite a bit smoother with stop/start off. Why might this be?

[gblansten]

Automatic start/stop has been brutal on my Tesla and I can't turn it off.

[BWBike]

I couldn’t care less if auto start stop made the engine last longer or made dollar bills come out of the air vents into my lap.

It is just so annoying that I can’t stand it. I turn it off every start up.

[DrVenture]

Fair enough!

[Donatello.]

Good, get rid of it. Also get rid of lane assist, brake assist, automatic braking, etc

I turned off the lane keep assist in the Miata & CX-5. I wish I could turn off the braking assistance in the CX-5. It has almost gotten us into an accident more than once.

[Smooth_Operator]

Yeah I could honestly care less about efficiency (wouldn't have bought a 335i) or longevity (wouldn't have tuned it) to care about ASS. But when I roll up to a set of lights and the engine dies it feels like a young driver learning manual and stalling. People are quick to say 'it isn't that bad' which yeah it's one button to disable but at the same time, cars were made without it for decades and from a user perspective it is worse in the eyes of many consumers. Over the lifetime of a car I'm going to press that damn button thousands of times. Or I would have, if I hadn't recoded my car to have ASS off by default. We could make some kind of 'greater good' argument however if we are going down that path I'd say that there are much much MUCH more important areas that the governments of the world should be focusing on, such as shipping and the military. The idea that me, basically nobody, should be bending over backwards to make a difference when there are entities that get away with causing so much damage to the earth is frankly insulting. But the world's lobbyists don't want to hear that.

[Chihuahua]

Wow this thread has some legs.

Engines are expensive. My current DD replaced a Tacoma I inherited from my father, was in the family 27 years. I tend to hold on to vehicles well beyond warranty period, ASS is a feature that is aptly named and I'm not a gambling man.

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by NSXR

And I politely told him to research it for himself with the guys that fix engines, not the guys that sell them .

So you made it up, gotcha

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I honestly don't understand the fixation on the cylinder walls. Engine oils have additives that help the oil film stick to the metal cylinder walls. Once the engine fires, oil pressure builds and lubrication continues. You make it sound like the interference between the oil ring and cylinder wall is of high friction. If that were the case, engines would be drastically damaged and destroyed in a matter of days of just a few cold start events. The ASS is just refiring an already hot engine, which is near zero wear factor.

He hates AS/S, knows the "starter" argument is debunked, so he is hanging on to this cylinder wall thing thinking no one will bother to debunk it.

It makes me laugh.

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by NSXR

How about I answer that question with a question.

How many engines have you rebuilt?

I'll give you credit, you are great at avoiding this.

[Mech Spec]

Guys don't you get it, BIG METAL is paying off the auto manufacturers with cheap aluminum and steel so that they can cause MAJOR financial harm to the 6th owner of a car who bought it for 2-7k and force them to REBUILD THE MOTOR.

- The guy who owns 0 BMW's but somehow wants to post on this forum about making engines last 300k miles while he's doing "research"

BuT hOw MaNy MoToRs HaVe U ReBiLt?

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

So you made it up, gotcha

Yes, you got me, 100% made up on the spot because of a secret agenda.

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

I'll give you credit, you are great at avoiding this.

Well that's what people do when they make things up on the spot. No one has ever heard of increased engine wear upon start-up.

Originally Posted by Mech Spec

Guys don't you get it, BIG METAL is paying off the auto manufacturers with cheap aluminum and steel so that they can cause MAJOR financial harm to the 6th owner of a car who bought it for 2-7k and force them to REBUILD THE MOTOR.

- The guy who owns 0 BMW's but somehow wants to post on this forum about making engines last 300k miles while he's doing "research"

BuT hOw MaNy MoToRs HaVe U ReBiLt?

There is no need to get upset, we simply have a difference of opinion based on different experiences.

[Mech Spec]

Who's upset? I'm making fun of you.