SD ///M4 wrote

Those are "alternative" definitions. Call your car what you want, but the dictionary usually trumps personal "definitions". I have a neighbor who bought a base model Mercedes C-Class convertible. She thinks its a "sports car".

The dictionary is a retrospective or laggard view of language. I've given you the correct modern definition, but feel free to live in the past. You can even watch talking pictures about it!

SD ///M4 wrote

Just to be clear, again, the M4 is a sports coupe, not a sports car and the M3 is a sports sedan, not a family sedan. The F30 is a family sedan.

"Sports cars" by tradition and original definition, were two-seater, two-door cars, with higher output engines and "sporty" handling:



My Z4 M Roadster is a true, proper sports car, as are the Corvette and certain Porsches (not the Panamera or Macan). My M4 is not.

Thanks for this information as it forever confused me why people say M cars are not sports cars. Now I know it has nothing to do with performance and is an arbitrary definition based on specific criteria. For me it is simple, if I am driving a vehicle that greatly exceeds the capabilities of almost everything I drive around then it is a sports car regardless of doors, seats or time of day. I realize some folks live in areas where hyper cars are common and Porsche and M cars are civics but these are outliers and however you want to label a M3/M4 they are significantly better than your typical car and even your not so typical car.

GrussGott wrote

The dictionary is a retrospective or laggard view of language. I've given you the correct modern definition, but feel free to live in the past. You can even watch talking pictures about it!

Lexor1704 wrote

...an arbitrary definition based on specific criteria.

So we should call already-defined things anything that we want? And words in a dictionary have "arbitrary definitions"? This isn't how language works or how we understand each other. This is why "lies" are now called "alternative facts". We should just call something anything we want! There's no rules anymore!

They're both good looking cars. M3 is way more practical than the M4. Why would you want your family to crawl into the backseat of a 2 door car. Even if you're not family guy. I'm sure you have friends who would ride in your at some point.

M3Ronnie wrote

They're both good looking cars. M3 is way more practical than the M4. Why would you want your family to crawl into the backseat of a 2 door car. Even if you're not family guy. I'm sure you have friends who would ride in your at some point.

M3 drivers have no friends.

we do have wives though. and kids. thank god for the four door.

SD ///M4 wrote

So we should call already-defined things anything that we want? And words in a dictionary have "arbitrary definitions"?

Uh oh. I feel like your whole World is about to go tits-up but here goes: all of language is arbitrary

You still alive? Ok, well hold on to your lederhosen, but English is actually a fucked up (and arbitrary) version of German. German for gawd-sakes!

So you see? There are no rules, man. No "already defined things" just arbitrary pit stops in the journey that is language.

See the evolution here (ps - check out Hungarian and Finnish! What the fuck is up with THAT?)

"The chaos shall set you free"
-- gg

GrussGott wrote

Uh oh. I feel like your whole World is about to go tits-up but here goes: all of language is arbitrary

You still alive? Ok, well hold on to your lederhosen, but English is actually a fucked up (and arbitrary) version of German. German for gawd-sakes!

So you see? There are no rules, man. No "already defined things" just arbitrary pit stops in the journey that is language.

See the evolution here (ps - check out Hungarian and Finnish! What the fuck is up with THAT?)

"The chaos shall set you free"
-- gg

All that and all I hear is you saying "A rose is NOT a rose is NOT a rose, it's whatever I want to call it."

why does my girlsfriend's tiny ass hand bag cost 5k. when my whole outfit cost 200 bucks????????????

GrussGott wrote

If you use your car for commuting and taking your kids for ice cream, it's a family sedan, no matter how many doors it has. A "sports car" is a car used for sport. 90% of BMW and Porsche owners don't use their car for sport. At best these are hobby cars.

So let's all be honest about that.

So by your logic, if an exotic car owner doesn't use his car for sport then he isn't driving a sports car??? hmmm.

So my old Viper, 911, Mac weren't sports cars because I didn't use them for sport. makes sense.....

GrussGott wrote

SD ///M4 wrote

So we should call already-defined things anything that we want? And words in a dictionary have "arbitrary definitions"?

Uh oh. I feel like your whole World is about to go tits-up but here goes: all of language is arbitrary

You still alive? Ok, well hold on to your lederhosen, but English is actually a fucked up (and arbitrary) version of German. German for gawd-sakes!

So you see? There are no rules, man. No "already defined things" just arbitrary pit stops in the journey that is language.

See the evolution here (ps - check out Hungarian and Finnish! What the fuck is up with THAT?)

"The chaos shall set you free"
-- gg

Dude. You crack me up.

M3Ronnie wrote

They're both good looking cars. M3 is way more practical than the M4. Why would you want your family to crawl into the backseat of a 2 door car. Even if you're not family guy. I'm sure you have friends who would ride in your at some point.

No one rides in my backseat ever! Friends can take their own cars.

Arguing on the internet - it never gets old!!!!

elitex wrote

So by your logic, if an exotic car owner doesn't use his car for sport then he isn't driving a sports car??? hmmm.

So my old Viper, 911, Mac weren't sports cars because I didn't use them for sport. makes sense.....

I know, right? It's like how my buddies insist on calling my porn cameras "cameras" or how, in China, "Chinese Food" is just "food".

But, hey, good news! You can still call it your "batman suit"!

GrussGott wrote

I know, right? It's like how my buddies insist on calling my porn cameras "cameras" or how, in China, "Chinese Food" is just "food".

But, hey, good news! You can still call it your "batman suit"!

you've got it all figured out. good for you.

G35POPPEDMYCHERRY wrote

why does my girlsfriend's tiny ass hand bag cost 5k. when my whole outfit cost 200 bucks????????????

If I had a girlfriend that spent 5k for a hand bag, she would no longer be my girlfriend. Girlfriends tend to become wives and I could not support that habit

The price difference is all in that carbon fiber trunk they painted over so that nobody could tell you had it

mkoesel wrote

As already mentioned above, the reason an M4 costs more than an M3 is that all BMW coupes cost more than the sedan (or other passenger car) they share a chassis and other parts with. In fact this is true not just for BMW but for most coupes on the market. And the reason for that, as already mentioned is that it is what the market will bear.

Did you know BMW sells a 1 Series in some markets? Check prices of the M140i against your M240i in markets where both are sold and I'll bet you find the 2 Series has the higher price in those places as well.



Does it? Can you give an example of an M4 option that costs more than the equivalent M3 option?

Here's the most recent ordering guide that includes both:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1440180&stc=1&d=1465663997

The word "equivalent" is key, BTW. Be careful not to compare packages with the same code that do not have identical equipment across both cars.

You are correct. When posting this I had done a quick build of both cars and at base, there was approx a $2500 diff. At the end, the gap had widened to about $3500. This morning I did a tit for tat build and the difference at the end was exactly what it was at the beginning (approx $2500). My mistake.

My M240i is my first BMW (traded a 2015 C7 Corvette for it.). So I knew little of BMW lineage or marketing. The assumption being that each number you go up in the BMW line, the better the car (or more well appointed), since pricing went up.

Seeing the M4 made me think for $82K what the difference was from the M3 (and not knowing how the M3 was equipped or priced), when I got home I built the M4 (and saw it had a 425 HP engine). Then started to build the M3 and saw the base price diff was only $2500 to get into a 4 series car until I realized they both had the same motor, and everything else.....and thought WTF.

Searched articles comparing the two and find they are basically the same car. I just wondered w/ a 4 door you have extra motors for windows, locks, handles, hinges, springs, weather strip, etc. adding extra expense and assembly, yet BMW charges more for a less complicated car. Hence my inquiry

I get it, and assumed as much as the replies I received. They charge it because they can. It would a bit easier to swallow if BMW included the Driver asst package or even just the Nav, as standard in the M4 to justify the extra cost.

USA-RET wrote

It would a bit easier to swallow if BMW included the Driver asst package or even just the Nav, as standard in the M4 to justify the extra cost.

The Nav is standard in the M4.

USA-RET wrote

I get it, and assumed as much as the replies I received. They charge it because they can. It would a bit easier to swallow if BMW included the Driver asst package or even just the Nav, as standard in the M4 to justify the extra cost.

Coupes and certain models tend to appeal more to the emotional purchase. BMW, Audi and Mercedes all charge more for the coupe version of this segment. They don't need to include additional packages to justify the price if people are buying because the prefer the coupe styling.

All that being said, since dealers generally have more M4 inventory than M3s, you might be able to find a better discount of an M4, particularly is buying off the lot. That may help close the gap.

Guys... guys...

You know when it comes to things like this. It's just the illuminati.

Doctor///M wrote

I'll get the beer, you supply the popcorn.

elitex wrote

you've got it all figured out. good for you.

Gawd dammit dude, nobody likes a quitter. Fine. This will be more productive if I make your argument for you:

You: Uh, yeah, but g-dawg, that's not quite true in this case. For utilitarian items, they're not always named for the actual use, but rather the use they are intended to be capable of. So, in this case, cars that are intended to be capable of sport use, can be called sports cars.

Me: Ok, so you're saying I can call the gloves I use to moisturize my dry knuckles "cage-fighter gloves" since that was the intention of manufacturer?

You: was it?

Me: well, probably not, since they're ladies therapeutic gloves.

You: then no

Me: seems unfair but, whatever, I drive a sports car.

You: we agree!