Ugly Kar wrote

Why do people keep brining up the horse to gas transition. EV's existed before ICE's. It's not relevant anyway because resources were basically unlimited back then.

I don't like the idea of destroying the environment and poisoning people with toxic metals in 3rd world countries so the elitists can have their EV's. But the selfish elitists don't care.

I like the idea of fuel cell technology and what it can do. It may take many years, but I think it's a better idea than EV's. Maybe EV's can get there someday too, but right now it's a net negative on the environment and people too.

“Poisoning people” is not an argument you can use against EVs when you’ve gotten behind the wheel of a ICE vehicle every day for decades.

Toyota Mirai is a very successful car. Very comfortable. The best configuration is blue and chrome rims. The interior is of better quality than the BMW 5er G60...

In Poland we only have 5 hydrogen refueling stations and this is a big disadvantage.

A_ wrote

Toyota Mirai is a very successful car. Very comfortable. The best configuration is blue and chrome rims. The interior is of better quality than the BMW 5er G60...

In Poland we only have 5 hydrogen refueling stations and this is a big disadvantage.

75% depreciation in 3 years, literally selling at low mileage for 15k.
182 hp

It may be successful by your definition of fit and finish
But not objectively

BEEMER gonna take over the 🌍

rabith007_b58 wrote

BEEMER gonna take over the 🌍

Bimmer.

A_ wrote

Toyota Mirai is a very successful car. Very comfortable. The best configuration is blue and chrome rims. The interior is of better quality than the BMW 5er G60...

In Poland we only have 5 hydrogen refueling stations and this is a big disadvantage.

How do you figure it is successful? You think Toyota makes any money on them? How many have been sold? Would you buy one?

T-Rexx wrote

First of all, I just made a counter point, but you response was rude, and offensive using inappropriate language.
Second, you claim you can read my mind in why (if) I don’t like Ev’s. That’s just makes you look foolish.
Third, mining for mineral for a battery that lasts only 10 years IS NOT A SUSTAINABLE Solution. No biased or hidden agenda, just a logical conclusion.
Lastly, I don’t like to debate with aggressive, ill mannered people.
Bye

I give two shits about your feelings. Spout nonsense and I'm going to call you out on it.

Bimmerfun82 wrote

75% depreciation in 3 years, literally selling at low mileage for 15k.
182 hp

It may be successful by your definition of fit and finish
But not objectively

It's a huge turd in the US.

F32Fleet wrote

It's a huge turd in the US.

Turd everywhere

madness. hydrogen is not easy to find. gas or EV is easier.

Zulu Saffa wrote

Completely behind hydrogen. Issue, as many have stated, is the infrastructure. Most of the world already have electric grids established. So, unfortunately, the case was easy to make and get government support to exploit and develop.

I say screw hydrogen and EV's and lets throw money and funding into synthetic fuels.

I am certainly no energy scientist or scholar, but if Chris Harris likes it, then it is good enough for me:

Synthetic fuel is coming… ⛽️

The cost is astronomical, however that will change in time

Porsche is spending a grip on research and development and they have a financial partner and it’s looking quite promising

tturedraider wrote

Do you actually think drivers are going to assess whether their car needs a charge or can wait until another time and then not park next to an unused charger so it is available for the next driver?! And they’re going to go through this thought process every time they park?! Do you actually believe that?! We don’t need a high density of gas stations, because the pump is in use for about five minutes for each vehicle it is used to fuel.

And EVs will be able to charge in 5 minutes within another couple of years.

T-Rexx wrote

First of all, I just made a counter point, but you response was rude, and offensive using inappropriate language.
Second, you claim you can read my mind in why (if) I don’t like Ev’s. That’s just makes you look foolish.
Third, mining for mineral for a battery that lasts only 10 years IS NOT A SUSTAINABLE Solution. No biased or hidden agenda, just a logical conclusion.
Lastly, I don’t like to debate with aggressive, ill mannered people.
Bye

Tesla built their battery packs to be 100% recyclable. That’s both good and bad. Because of they way they built them, you cannot replace a single cell but the entire battery. Other car manufacturers can do repairs on a cell level. BMW estimates 30 year life on their batteries. Most of the bad mining was for rare earth metals. BMW uses zero of them. However they are mined for computers, tablets and refining petroleum.

Scrapula wrote

Tesla built their battery packs to be 100% recyclable. That’s both good and bad. Because of they way they built them, you cannot replace a single cell but the entire battery. Other car manufacturers can do repairs on a cell level. BMW estimates 30 year life on their batteries. Most of the bad mining was for rare earth metals. BMW uses zero of them. However they are mined for computers, tablets and refining petroleum.

A good counter point.
An open and civilised conversation facilitated new perspective and some learning on both sides.
Thank you.

Alpine Wait wrote

“Poisoning people” is not an argument you can use against EVs when you’ve gotten behind the wheel of a ICE vehicle every day for decades.

No, it's not an argument you would use because you don't understand it takes 10x as many toxic metals to produce an EV as an ICE, but I do. I don't like killing people in 3rd world countries, but some people don't care.

And I don't get behind the wheel of an ICE every day and haven't for decades.

Finally car companies that are using their heads. Hydrogen will make tons of power, only has water for exhaust. Let’s hope the fueling stations will be available.

335mine wrote

Finally car companies that are using their heads. Hydrogen will make tons of power, only has water for exhaust. Let’s hope the fueling stations will be available.

Lots of hopes, yet to hear a plan for stations or the problem of hydrogen being massively expensive.

Car companies making a model that uses hydrogen aren't doing anything to solve the real problems. I am 100% confident all major manufacturers can build the vehicle, would love to hear who they think will buy it and how these people will use it. Seems to be mostly a publicity/marketing stunt. We all know Toyota produces a hydrogen vehicle, none of us have any plans to own one.

David70 wrote

We all know Toyota produces a hydrogen vehicle, none of us have any plans to own one.

That’s a bold claim. I couldn’t plan to own one because I don’t live in the state where they’ve been available. I don’t understand the resistance to exploring options. We are facing a big challenge and I think it’s short-sighted to rule out anything at this point.

SportySpice wrote

That’s a bold claim. I couldn’t plan to own one because I don’t live in the state where they’ve been available. I don’t understand the resistance to exploring options. We are facing a big challenge and I think it’s short-sighted to rule out anything at this point.

It came out a decade ago in CA, now available in CA. You get one & decide to move out of state you absolutely need to get out of your lease or sell it because if you drive it to your new home you will be trapped.

I'm completely fine with them building whatever they want to build just don't see the path forward. I was & still am somewhat skeptical of EV's for everyone but from the beginning it made sense that putting a charger at my house was a simple, convenient place to start & came with really low refuel costs. Explain something similar with hydrogen. Nobody seems to have the path forward with it & how to deal with the super high cost of refuelling. 95% of the time it won't be close to as convenient as an EV would be for me (10 seconds to plug in at my house), never be close to as cheap to refuel. In the last decade we went from an EV being impossible for long distance travel to not as convenient as an ICE. Hydrogen?

What do you see as the path forward with hydrogen? I live in Cincinnati, when do you think it will make sense for me to buy one? In 2014 I was less skeptical than I am today.

Fantastic 5 wrote

We can barely get enough infrastructure for EV’s, and now they want to introduce hydrogen. It’s not going to take. Also, people are liking not having to fill up and recharge at home. Hydrogen brings us back to the old paradigm of having to get fuel outside from a third party.

It will finally have a chance to be a greener solution than burning coal to produce electricity and transmit with an inefficient grid. Not everyone gets bright sunshine all day long to do solar.

Now we are truly talking about charging convenience, whatever happened to the tree hugging environmentalist elites who were taking pride in a Tesla model x that would finally save our planet from global warming. Don’t get me started on the battery waste and wastelands to be created in next 5 years.

The EV narrative and brainwashing will continue. Hydrogen may truly be the answer, time will tell

David70 wrote

It came out a decade ago in CA, now available in CA. You get one & decide to move out of state you absolutely need to get out of your lease or sell it because if you drive it to your new home you will be trapped.

I'm completely fine with them building whatever they want to build just don't see the path forward. I was & still am somewhat skeptical of EV's for everyone but from the beginning it made sense that putting a charger at my house was a simple, convenient place to start & came with really low refuel costs. Explain something similar with hydrogen. Nobody seems to have the path forward with it & how to deal with the super high cost of refuelling. 95% of the time it won't be close to as convenient as an EV would be for me (10 seconds to plug in at my house), never be close to as cheap to refuel. In the last decade we went from an EV being impossible for long distance travel to not as convenient as an ICE. Hydrogen?

What do you see as the path forward with hydrogen? I live in Cincinnati, when do you think it will make sense for me to buy one? In 2014 I was less skeptical than I am today.

I know they’re only available in California. That’s why a Mirai isn’t an option for me.

I don’t know what the path forward is with hydrogen fuel cell cars. That’s why I want someone to keep working on it - so we can figure it out. If you know that EVs aren’t for everyone, what’s your solution for those people? I don’t want to give up my ICE car any more than the next person, but I suspect at some point I’ll have to. So if an EV doesn’t work me, then I’m just screwed in your world?

And just because you can’t buy one in the near term doesn’t mean the research and exploration have no value FFS. You’ve got all the answers on what’ll never happen - where’s the peer-reviewed research paper that you published? I’m sure Toyota and BMW would be very interested.

F32Fleet wrote

Stop making shit up.

What do this person make up in their statement? Are you under the impression battery packs last forever, are efficient or they don’t weigh hundreds of pounds? The only recycleable part is the battery casing and conductive components. You’ll maybe get 8-10% of the chemical makeup reused.