[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Totally - Mercedes cheated Ham in 2016 to gift Nico a win into retirement.

Inaccurate.

Rosberg decided to retire. Mercedes was taken by surprise and had to quickly search for a replacement (Bottas). The relationship between Hamilton and Rosberg was described as "really bad".

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

No ! I don't lie .You got me wrong . I said ; LEW worn out his skid blocks already during the sprint race and in the race because his car was sitting too low from in the QF and sprint race .
And so even more during the race . That's why LEW was DSQ (!)
LEW was DSQ "after the race" because his car was sitting too low.

But actually LEW had to be DSQ already after the sprint race , because his car was sitting too low in QF and sprint race.

In other words : LEW's ride was too low and not according to the FIA regulations in the QF , sprint race and race (!)

But that’s not what was said anywhere.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Alonso

Alike the Monaco 2023 qualies: Verstappen's peers were impressed:

"Inside Story: The Greatest Qualifying Ever? 2023 Monaco Grand Prix" (9:37)
Q3 summarized from 4:00 onwards - drivers POV:
Alonso to his team after provisional pole position: "I cannot push any harder than this"
and after hearing that Verstappen got P1: "Don't be disappointed. This is magic."
AmuroRay, no matter your rather low esteem for Verstappen, he is an exceptional F1 driver:

Senna's qualifying at Monaco in 1988 was likely the best F1 qualifying ever of the past decades.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MoeTE87

This aged nicely!

Congrats my friend

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Inaccurate.

Rosberg decided to retire. Mercedes was taken by surprise and had to quickly search for a replacement (Bottas). The relationship between Hamilton and Rosberg was described as "really bad".

Mercedes sabotaged Ham's car in favor of Rosberg and gifted him a win. Claiming Mercedes was caught off guard to Rosberg's retirement doesn't change what Mercedes did to HAM (and again in 2022-2024)

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Alike the Monaco 2023 qualies: Verstappen's peers were impressed:

"Inside Story: The Greatest Qualifying Ever? 2023 Monaco Grand Prix" (9:37)
Q3 summarized from 4:00 onwards - drivers POV:
Alonso to his team after provisional pole position: "I cannot push any harder than this"
and after hearing that Verstappen got P1: "Don't be disappointed. This is magic."
AmuroRay, no matter your rather low esteem for Verstappen, he is an exceptional F1 driver:

Senna's qualifying at Monaco in 1988 was likely the best F1 qualifying ever of the past decades.

Best qualifying lap in history was Hamilton's Singapore in 2018 - 3rd fastest car and a lap so fast, it exceeded the simulations of the fastest lap.

He beat the Red Bull and Ferrari's that day - he is, was and will be the best driver ever.

[AmuroRay]

Everything people praise verstappen about, Hamilton did it first and better. Because he is better and always will be better.

Verstappen fans can't even not mention Hamilton because he lives rent free in their heads. That's how good he is. I don't think about Verstappen at all, because while he's good - he's nothing compared to Hamilton.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Everything people praise verstappen about, Hamilton did it first and better. Because he is better and always will be better.

Verstappen fans can't even not mention Hamilton because he lives rent free in their heads. That's how good he is. I don't think about Verstappen at all, because while he's good - he's nothing compared to Hamilton.

And what do you think about the assumption that Verstappen lives rent free in your mind since Hamilton's F1 reign (7xWDC) crumbled in 2021 because of Verstappen (0xWDC back then) ? Verstappen as the splinter in your F1 mind ?

• Points of fact - no opinion: after the Jeddah 2021 GP victory, there were only the Silverstone 2024 GP, the Spa-Francorchamps 2024 GP and the China 2025 Sprint. And that's it.
• Opinion: also this 2025 season, a twentysomething F1 driver will win the WDC (likely Piastri or Norris; Verstappen only if McLaren either makes truly colossal strategic mistakes or encounters multiple engine failures or misses both Piastri and Norris because of medical issues). Hamilton may still win a GP or a Sprint so now and then later this year, but his chances of still winning yet another WDC are as big as Senna still winning one as we speak. Wake up and smell the coffee: Hamilton's heyday as F1 driver ended the moment Verstappen overtook him fair and square in Turn 5 of the final lap of the Abu Dhabi 2021 GP. Time to move on.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Alike the Monaco 2023 qualies: Verstappen's peers were impressed:

"Inside Story: The Greatest Qualifying Ever? 2023 Monaco Grand Prix" (9:37)
Q3 summarized from 4:00 onwards - drivers POV:
Alonso to his team after provisional pole position: "I cannot push any harder than this"
and after hearing that Verstappen got P1: "Don't be disappointed. This is magic."
AmuroRay, no matter your rather low esteem for Verstappen, he is an exceptional F1 driver:

Senna's qualifying at Monaco in 1988 was likely the best F1 qualifying ever of the past decades.

The best pole laps and best race performances in history have come from Senna, Schumacher, and Max. The correlation of their greatness also translates to wet races where it's 1. Sen, 2. Max & 3. Sch. No others really stand out much or can match them for their greatness.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Artemis

And what do you think about the assumption that Verstappen lives rent free in your mind since Hamilton's F1 reign (7xWDC) crumbled in 2021 because of Verstappen (0xWDC back then) ? Verstappen as the splinter in your F1 mind ?

• Points of fact - no opinion: after the Jeddah 2021 GP victory, there were only the Silverstone 2024 GP, the Spa-Francorchamps 2024 GP and the China 2025 Sprint. And that's it.
• Opinion: also this 2025 season, a twentysomething F1 driver will win the WDC (likely Piastri or Norris; Verstappen only if McLaren either makes truly colossal strategic mistakes or encounters multiple engine failures or misses both Piastri and Norris because of medical issues). Hamilton may still win a GP or a Sprint so now and then later this year, but his chances of still winning yet another WDC are as big as Senna still winning one as we speak. Wake up and smell the coffee: Hamilton's heyday as F1 driver ended the moment Verstappen overtook him fair and square in Turn 5 of the final lap of the Abu Dhabi 2021 GP. Time to move on.

I don't think or care about Verstappen at all. The guy has been in F1 for 6 years before he was gifted a win (2021) after having all the rules stacked in his favor and the fastest car on the grid. It was so fast that even Helmut Marko admitted they would have won already by mid season if it weren't for Hamilton.

Everyone - literally EVERYONE, even the old, salty washed up Alonso knows that Hamilton was/is/always will be the best.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Artemis

And what do you think about the assumption that Verstappen lives rent free in your mind since Hamilton's F1 reign (7xWDC) crumbled in 2021 because of Verstappen (0xWDC back then) ? Verstappen as the splinter in your F1 mind ?

• Points of fact - no opinion: after the Jeddah 2021 GP victory, there were only the Silverstone 2024 GP, the Spa-Francorchamps 2024 GP and the China 2025 Sprint. And that's it.
• Opinion: also this 2025 season, a twentysomething F1 driver will win the WDC (likely Piastri or Norris; Verstappen only if McLaren either makes truly colossal strategic mistakes or encounters multiple engine failures or misses both Piastri and Norris because of medical issues). Hamilton may still win a GP or a Sprint so now and then later this year, but his chances of still winning yet another WDC are as big as Senna still winning one as we speak. Wake up and smell the coffee: Hamilton's heyday as F1 driver ended the moment Verstappen overtook him fair and square in Turn 5 of the final lap of the Abu Dhabi 2021 GP. Time to move on.

Everyone knows Max is a better driver and more talented and already has cemented his place higher in the all-time greats. Taking down the MB (the car was responsible for the winning, and the driver accounted for very little) was the start of it as you mentioned. Where the race came down to the most under pressure situation, Ham cracked like an egg. We could probably go through 2 or 3 dozen records that Max holds that Hamilton never even came close to even though Max also didnt have the most dominant car in history to do it like Ham did.
Ham is already claiming his Ferrari is the problem LOL. For years, he got a better and faster car than Ros (and still lost to him) and then got a faster car than Bot all those years and still needed team orders on countless occasions. He's always needed and unfair advantage to perform - kind of like Lance Armstrong and how he cheated every year he won the Tour de France.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I don't think or care about Verstappen at all. The guy has been in F1 for 6 years before he was gifted a win (2021) after having all the rules stacked in his favor and the fastest car on the grid. It was so fast that even Helmut Marko admitted they would have won already by mid season if it weren't for Hamilton.

Everyone - literally EVERYONE, even the old, salty washed up Alonso knows that Hamilton was/is/always will be the best.

Hamilton was definitely the greatest F1 driver of his generation.

The vast majority of F1 aficionados will acknowledge this. And they will also acknowledge that Fangio was the best of his generation, Clark the best of his generation, Prost the best of his generation, Schumacher the best of his generation, Vettel the best of his generation and now Verstappen the best of the current generation. Maybe Piastri, Antonelli or a young hopeful who didn't enter F1 yet, will be the best of their generation in a not so distant future.

GOAT is a subjective notion. Last year, the UK motor racing magazine Motor Sport made a Top 100 of racing drivers GOAT ( "100 greatest drivers from F1, rally, IndyCar and elsewhere"). They ranked UK driver Jim Clark #1. Clark died in 1968 during a race at Hockenheim aged 32.

They ranked Hamilton #2, Verstappen #16 and Alonso #17.
(https://web.archive.org/web/20241207...acing-drivers/)

Senna - Fangio - Stewart:


Chapman:


A fascinating glimpse of a 'day at the races' in the early 60s featuring its rawness and perilously low safety standards for drivers, camera-men and public: 10-minute highlights - in color! - of the Spa-Francorchamps 1961 F1 race (race results here):

[AmuroRay]

I'm not agreeing to any of that. Hamilton is the best.
Period. No compromises, no comparisons.

[3798j]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Clark died in 1968 during a race at Hockenheim aged 32.

April 7th, 1968...it was 57 years ago yesterday. I remember where I was and who told me the terrible news. The loss felt terrible not only because of his greatness but because he was such a gentleman...a nice guy.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by 3798j

April 7th, 1968...it was 57 years ago yesterday. I remember where I was and who told me the terrible news. The loss felt terrible not only because of his greatness but because he was such a gentleman...a nice guy.

Formidable F1 driver (WDC 1963 and 1965).

During the Spa 1963 race (ending in torrential rain) he finished 8 miles and almost 5 minutes clear of P2 (Bruce McLaren) (results: here)

Spa 1963 (no sound):

[3798j]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Formidable F1 driver (WDC 1963 and 1965).

And winner of the 1965 Indianapolis 500...in his Lotus 38 (the first rear engined winner).

[3798j]

One more thing...a favorite racing quote of mine...

“Clark came through at the end of the first lap of the race so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
- Eddie Dennis (Lotus chief mechanic), describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa-Francorchamps - 1967.

Clark didn't win...fouled plugs in his Cosworth V8.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Of course Lewis car was faster, Lewis was driving it. The idea that Bottas was somehow cheated is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Mercedes sabotaged Ham's car in favor of Rosberg and gifted him a win. Claiming Mercedes was caught off guard to Rosberg's retirement doesn't change what Mercedes did to HAM (and again in 2022-2024)

LOL. Further examples of your sound logic.

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I don't think or care about Verstappen at all..

You sure post about him a lot for someone you 'don't think or care about'.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by tsk94

LOL. Further examples of your sound logic.




You sure post about him a lot for someone you 'don't think or care about'.

Logic is as sound as it gets.

Hamilton was literally 1 place away from titles in about 3 different years at LEAST.

2007/2016/2021 - We coulda argue about 2010-13. This doesn't change:

Mercedes purposely sabotaging HAM's car in 2016 and 2024
Bottas outright admitting that Hamilton was faster - And Bottas was no slouch himself. Prior to being at Mercedes, he was 4th in the WDC in the 3rd fastest car and regularly put pressure on Ferrari drivers like RAI and VET.

Best driver in your lifetime and you can't even appreciate it.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by 3798j

One more thing...a favorite racing quote of mine...

“Clark came through at the end of the first lap of the race so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
- Eddie Dennis (Lotus chief mechanic), describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa-Francorchamps - 1967.

Clark didn't win...fouled plugs in his Cosworth V8.

1958 British GP - Silverstone - July 19, 1958 (results: here):

Sobering: when watching that Silverstone summary, keep in mind the following tragedies:

• Peter Collins (P1) died, aged 26, during the next GP (1958 German GP - Nürburgring);
  his Ferrari team mate Luigi Musso had died, aged 33, during the previous race (1958 French GP - Reims);
• Stuart Lewis-Evans (P4) died, aged 28, during the final race of the season (1958 Morocco GP);
• Mike Hawthorn (P2) was so disturbed by Collins's death that he retired from racing after winning the 1958 WDC;
  unfortunately, he died, aged 29, only a couple of months later (1959) in a car crash on a UK public road;
• Jean Behra (DNF) died, aged 38, in 1959 in West-Berlin during a race;
• Ivor Bueb (DNF) died, aged 36, in 1959 in Clermont-Ferrand during a race;
• Harry Schell (P5) died, aged 38, in 1960 in Silverstone during a race;
• Alan Stacey (DNF) died, aged 26, in 1960 in Spa-Francorchamps during the 1960 Belgian GP;
• Wolfgang von Trips (DNF) died, aged 33, in 1961 in Monza (1961 Italian GP);
• Jo Bonnier (DNF) died, aged 42, in 1972 in Le Mans during a race;
• Graham Hill (DNF) died, aged 46, in 1975 near London in a plane crash.

F1 safety has significantly improved over the years.

[AmuroRay]

2010 - Lewis again, one race from another WDC with a tire blowout in Spain. That's 4 and bad circumstances in 2012 would make 5.

We almost had a universe where Hamilton won 12 WDCs. He's truly the greatest of all time.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

2010 - Lewis again, one race from another WDC with a tire blowout in Spain. That's 4 and bad circumstances in 2012 would make 5.

We almost had a universe where Hamilton won 12 WDCs. He's truly the greatest of all time.

Rumor has it that, "of all time", Alexander The Great, Hannibal, Julius Caesar, Genghis Kahn, Napoleon, Sir Lancelot, d'Artagnan and Maximus Decimus Meridius Verstappenus were better.

But that's hearsay.

Chariot race featuring Michael Schumix and J.T.: