[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Agreed and add Lexus and Acura to that list.

Older folks don't want the sporty ride of the German car and don't like hassles or expensive maintenance. If their budget is $40-50K, then that means they'd be looking at 2-3 y/o BMWs with little warranty left. Late model BMWs are generally reliable, but out of warranty repairs can be eye-watering especially considering the cars they'd be coming from which have very little in the way of running costs compared to a BMW, Audi, etc.

Yeah the out of warranty repairs especially later in the car's life are a concern. That being said, a $50k budget gets you a fully loaded X1 (which is what I got for the in-laws last year - and with dealer discounts on those can easily get a fully loaded one for ~$45k) and it's excellent.

But I do want to cross shop with additional options primarily because my parents drive quite a bit more than my in-laws do.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yeah I see no case for the Germans and TBH the Volvo is hardly a beacon f reliability. The LExus makes the most sense TBH and i'd cross shop against the Lincoln.

Will definitely check out the Lexus. Will also need to see what sort of deals they can do.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

My parents currently have a 220k mile 2014 Toyota Rav4 and a 140k mile 2002 Lexus SC430. The Rav4 isn't really worth anything anymore, so they'll likely keep that till the wheels fall off (sort of already are). But they're thinking of getting rid of the SC430 and getting into another SUV.

Any recommendations?

Stay with the Toyota/Lexus family. No need to fix what isn't broken.
Either NX or RX will fit the bill very nicely!

Originally Posted by chassis

German brands truly are junk. Attractive, fun and engaging junk.

I hate to agree, but I do.
The advent of 2.0L turbo's with extended oil intervals have killed reliability of BMW/Audi/Mercedes portfolio.
Add the obligatory oil leaks from N20/B48 valve cover gasket and oil filter housing, and I would not recommend those to anyone I know or care about.

YMMV,
a

P.S.: Genesis GV series might be contender as well. I almost grabbed one for my teen, but the dealership bait'n'switch games got out of control. Got him a Lexus instead.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Stay with the Toyota/Lexus family. No need to fix what isn't broken.
Either NX or RX will fit the bill very nicely!



I hate to agree, but I do.
The advent of 2.0L turbo's with extended oil intervals have killed reliability of BMW/Audi/Mercedes portfolio.
Add the obligatory oil leaks from N20/B48 valve cover gasket and oil filter housing, and I would not recommend those to anyone I know or care about.

YMMV,
a

P.S.: Genesis GV series might be contender as well. I almost grabbed one for my teen, but the dealership bait'n'switch games got out of control. Got him a Lexus instead.

Will defintiely check out the UX/NX as well. Unsure what sort of deals they have for them.

Did just get quoted 10% off MSRP on an X1... so that's tempting.

As for the B48, isn't it the same one that Toyota uses in the 2.0 Supra? Thought they had ironed out many of the past quirks and these new ones were supposed to be quite reliable.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Will defintiely check out the UX/NX as well. Unsure what sort of deals they have for them.

UX starts at $42K.
RX at $50K, and is a bit roomier.

https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-hybrid/offers

I got RZ last summer, and the cockpit is very driver-oriented, reminiscent of what BMWs used to be a few deacades ago.

Not sure how they compare to X1/X2/X3/X5. I would not consider owning any of those. Leasing, on the other hand, is entire viable.

Originally Posted by wtwo3

As for the B48, isn't it the same one that Toyota uses in the 2.0 Supra? Thought they had ironed out many of the past quirks and these new ones were supposed to be quite reliable.

And here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zVZhSt50bHY

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by DanG

My wife loves her Mazda CX-5. I would suggest that or a CX-50. Get the turbo edition. Both are superior to an X1. We are grandparents so are in the same age category as your parents.

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I like the Mazdas. Will take some convincing because for some odd reason my parents don't. They had a Mazda 6 a long time ago in the past and for whatever reason didn't like it. It's an uphill battle to convince them that Mazda is much improved.

When you say superior to an X1, in what way?

I’m a big fan of Mazdas, but I vote for the X1 or X2!! I think Mazda has improved their interiors pretty substantially over the last decade, but I haven’t examined them closely. I looked at a Mazda SUV for my mom about a decade ago and at that time I was surprised at the cheap quality of the Mazda interior given my previous experience with them.

I can’t comment on the drive of the current Mazdas, but I can comment on the drive of BMWs. Even though I’m not much of a fan of most current BMW designs and I haven’t driven the new version of the X1, I have driven the previous X1 and X2 and I’m pretty confident BMW hasn’t screwed that up. Regardless of how the well the Mazda may drive, in my very BMW biased view there still isn’t another manufacturer that produces a vehicle that drives like BMWs drive. (Excepting Porsche, but that’s a different category.) I actually think I did drive either a new X1 or X2 at last summer’s UDE. I have to give BMW credit that they did a good job of maintaining the BMW driving characteristics with their FWD models.

[Mavus]

for older folks lexus rx new or pre owned will run forever and is comfy and not huge so easier to park

[DanG]

One added note: Our Mazda CX-5 came with a free lifetime powertrain warranty.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Thought they had ironed out many of the past quirks and these new ones were supposed to be quite reliable.

Not through my lenses. I am in the middle of deciding what to do with an overheated B46 that started with the oil filter housing and now the rest of the plastic cooling system components are failing sequentially. 91k miles. German junk.

[Alfisti]

Yeah BMW are renowned for plastic cooling components that fail. Didn't Toyota drive them insane when they got delivery of the shared 3T motor with Toyota repeatedly sending it back saying "fantastic power, bravo, now make it work".

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by chassis

Not through my lenses. I am in the middle of deciding what to do with an overheated B46 that started with the oil filter housing and now the rest of the plastic cooling system components are failing sequentially. 91k miles. German junk.

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yeah BMW are renowned for plastic cooling components that fail. Didn't Toyota drive them insane when they got delivery of the shared 3T motor with Toyota repeatedly sending it back saying "fantastic power, bravo, now make it work".

Well let's see what they think. Taking them car shopping on Friday to check out a few models. If they do decide they want the X1, I'll have to make sure they stay on top of maintenance (which likely means I'll have to stay on top of its maintenance).

So far on the list:

Lexus UX/NX
Mazda CX50
BMW X1

I've already pre-negotiated a 10% off deal on the X1, will need to do a bit of research to see what's possible to negotiate off the other 2.

[Alfisti]

I get the CX5 and CX50 mixed up

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I get the CX5 and CX50 mixed up

I'm not entirely sure about the differences.... Only thing I know is the CX50 is the more "rugged" looking one and the CX5 looks more like a crossover.

[CLTMDA]

Just took my father-in-law (age 78) out to look at cars after he totaled his older Infiniti small SUV. I tried showing him the X1 and X3, did not like them for some strange reason. Tried the Volvo, same result. He is a bigger guy and the Volvo "felt small" to him. I was actually partial to the Mazda CX-5 from the start and thought it would fit him (both in size and other attributes). I did not let him know that and it was the third dealership we stopped at just because of the locations. We walked in the front door, he loved the one sitting in the showroom, did a quick test drive, walked back in and he told the salesman "I want that one", pointing at the car on the floor. The salesman said he would check inventory to see what they had on the lot, but my father-in-law insisted he wanted the one on the showroom floor. He offered a price, haggled a bit and said "OK, here is my check, get it ready and my daughter and son-in-law will be back in a few hours to pick it up". The guy really has NO patience. It's been about 8 months or so and he absolutely loves the car.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I’m a big fan of Mazdas, but I vote for the X1 or X2!! I think Mazda has improved their interiors pretty substantially over the last decade, but I haven’t examined them closely. I looked at a Mazda SUV for my mom about a decade ago and at that time I was surprised at the cheap quality of the Mazda interior given my previous experience with them.

I can’t comment on the drive of the current Mazdas, but I can comment on the drive of BMWs. Even though I’m not much of a fan of most current BMW designs and I haven’t driven the new version of the X1, I have driven the previous X1 and X2 and I’m pretty confident BMW hasn’t screwed that up. Regardless of how the well the Mazda may drive, in my very BMW biased view there still isn’t another manufacturer that produces a vehicle that drives like BMWs drive. (Excepting Porsche, but that’s a different category.) I actually think I did drive either a new X1 or X2 at last summer’s UDE. I have to give BMW credit that they did a good job of maintaining the BMW driving characteristics with their FWD models.

Present day Mazdas are built very well for their price point. From an interior and exterior styling perspective, their designs are clean and organic. No fluff. No silly aggression.

I have a 2011 Cayman and a 2018 M2. My 20 y/o son has a 2020 Mazda 3 Premium hatch in a flat gray/blue with a black and red interior. The styling is spot on. The interior is very well built for a car that listed for around $30K. Years ago, Mazda grabbed a bunch of BMW engineers and there is bunch BMW-ness in the car, especially the interior and the I-drive-like controls. The switch gear and feel of materials closely rivals that of my M2. The biggest difference is the heft of materials, thickness of sheet metal, weight of doors, and general refinement and sense of robustness. IMO, that Mazda 3 is just a high revving 4 banger or turbo 4 and more aggressive suspension tuning from real greatness.

The car is extremely reliable, drives exceptional, has a great shifting 6AT, gets 35+mpg on the highway, the list goes on. He constantly gets people asking him what kind of car it is.

IMO, Mazdas are by far the best cars for the money if you aren't overly concerned about strong acceleration. They are competitively priced, punch WAY above their weight in terms of styling and build quality, are reliable, and cheap to maintain. Their cars/SUVs are upper 14/15 second 1/4 mile vehicles. That's fast enough for the vast majority of the buying public. I do wish they had a performance motor though.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by chassis

German brands truly are junk. Attractive, fun and engaging junk.

Collectively, I'm on my 11th year of German ownership. I currently own a 2011 Cayman and a 2018 M2. I had a 2016 M235 since new for nearly 8 years and 78K miles before selling it. That car was spotless when I sold it and not a single weeping or leaking seal on that car. I only did the typical maintenance and a couple of preventive maintenance things which are known to fail at 60K+ miles. Nothing broke on that car. Nothing.

I guess my take from owning 3 German cars is that you've got to maintain them. If you don't, things can and will snowball. That to me is the biggest negative of a German car. These cars are not for people that aren't into maintenance. Also, one does need to do research as some models, motors, transmissions, model years, generations, etc. can be problematic.

There are certainly some German brands and German car models I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, but I do feel that German cars do get a bad rap because many owners don't maintain them thus the cars fail epically.

My M2 and Cayman are not difficult to work on nor are overly complex machines. It does take longer to work on them in many cases, but it's not overly difficult working on them in most instances.

Most things start failing around the 8-10 year mark. Once fixed, you're going to get that much life out of the car. Cooling and oiling system lines and seals are a given to fail, but I see the same stuff in the 10+ y/o Subarus, NA/ND Mazda Miatas, and domestic vehicles I routinely work on.

[bucketfoot]

The Mazda 3 Turbo was on my list when I purchased last year.

Their quality is very good and their luxury level is more or less on par with the entry level BMWs such as the X1/X2 and 2-series.

I ended up with a 230, but am quite comfortable saying that I would not have been disappointed with the Mazda 3 and wouldn't hesitate looking at the CX5/50/70/90 if I was in the market for a CUV.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm not entirely sure about the differences.... Only thing I know is the CX50 is the more "rugged" looking one and the CX5 looks more like a crossover.

CX-50 is closer to a wagon than an SUV. Lower ground clearance vs the CX-5. I like the looks of the CX-50 a lot better, and I'm not a wagon kinda guy.

[CLTMDA]

I also think the Mazdas are a great value for what you get. They do not have a high-end option in the same vein as Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, so they tend to put more "extras" into the car.

I parked next to a CX-50 this past weekend, great looking little car, but I agree it appears lower and more like a wagon, not too bad if that is what you are looking for. My 78 yr old father-in-law can afford whatever car (or anything else for that matter) he wants, but the CX-5 really fit what he wanted. He isn't a tech guy, but doesn't need to be for this car. He is also a bigger guy and getting into and out of this car is very easy for him. Mazda is definitely worth a visit for consideration.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by CLTMDA

I also think the Mazdas are a great value for what you get. They do not have a high-end option in the same vein as Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, so they tend to put more "extras" into the car.

I parked next to a CX-50 this past weekend, great looking little car, but I agree it appears lower and more like a wagon, not too bad if that is what you are looking for. My 78 yr old father-in-law can afford whatever car (or anything else for that matter) he wants, but the CX-5 really fit what he wanted. He isn't a tech guy, but doesn't need to be for this car. He is also a bigger guy and getting into and out of this car is very easy for him. Mazda is definitely worth a visit for consideration.

What sort of a discount were you able to get on the mazda? I was able to score a 10% off deal on the x1 with little haggling. The NX is proving to be a but more difficult to negotiate on. Haven't approached a mazda dealer yet.

[Rocket455]

OP: looks like whatever car you get your folks next, they will keep it for a long time. Based on that alone, my vote goes to Lexus NX/RX. I'd personally avoid a hybrid (fewer components to go bad in the long-term compared to standard ICE setup). Out of all the options presented, the Lexus dealership experience will be the most pleasing, Lexus has renowned reliability, and it'll still hold its value better by a mile.

[dreamingat30fps]

As a first time Lexus owner I would say Lexus also, especially for parents who probably don't care all that much about performance, tech etc.

Coming from a Cayenne I'm really liking the ES350. It's hard to describe because it's not exciting or has any crazy tech or anything like that, but that's also what I like. It's extremely comfortable, has plenty of power for passing and what not, it's not like some cars I've driven where I'm screaming at the damn car lets goooooooo!!!!! It has all the tech I could want and actually use and I sleep like a baby not worrying something ridiculously expensive is gonna blow up on it at any moment.