Horner in trouble at Red Bull

3798j · 07-09-2025, 02:50 PM

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GuidoK · 07-09-2025, 03:03 PM

I wonder to what extend the failure of the deal with Porsche has contributed to the firing of Horner. That deal was really fucked up. I mean, how much stake the new partner gets in the team should be something to be settled first prior to any other talks.
but in the media the deal was long long under way until Porsche (or RB) backed out when Porsche wanted too much...
And then also Honda came back to F1, but RB already had a deal with Ford. go figure.....
That was just such a strange story for companies where/when billions are involved....

minn19 · 07-09-2025, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

No they don't and shouldn't!!! But, if he cheated, Geri did and it's none of my business.

No it isn’t any of our business and never said it was. It is the business of the company though when your top man puts the company in danger (and distracting from the task at hand) while sleeping with subordinates. Also no company likes the bad publicity from scandals like that one. I don’t think that is the main reason he was fired, but obviously didn’t help.

minn19 · 07-09-2025, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3798j

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If Toto passes Horner with Max, that’ll sting Christian just a bit.

3798j · 07-09-2025, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

But this is how things go, at any team.
I mean at Mercedes Elliott, Cowell and Serra left. And Toto is still there (as part owner, who knows what wouldve happened if he was just on the paylist....). He even lost Hammy.
Stuff happens, most engineers leave because they can get more money, a better position or more power elsewhere. They make a long strong career at one team, and if they've won numerous WCC's or WDC's, new oppertunities are for the picking.

Yep, and this is how it's gone for RBR...
At one time they were considered the favorite to win the WDC and the WCC. They aren't now.
At one time they had two fast and capable drivers. They don't now.
At one time they had the best car. They don't now.
At one time they had the fastest pit stops. They don't now.
At one time they had the most astute strategies. They don't now.
And there's nothing on the horizon that hints the remaining staff are able to turn things around. This is what leads owners to replace principals.

Arcades · 07-09-2025, 03:49 PM

I mean, there is only real two take away from all of this. It all tends to lead to Max.

Either Max has already indicated he is leaving RB and that meant Horner is donzo, or they are trying to salvage anything left to try and prevent Max from leaving.

Can't really ignore the past few years, even as a casual observer how much RB and fumbled and it is literally self caused. Horner has everything to do with it too and you can't ignore that.

Personally don't think Porsche's fallen deal had anything to do with this. Porsche historically asks for a lot because... well they are Porsche, they are kind of stuck up about that. So, I don't think it's really RB's fault for saying no.

This is ALL self caused and no one is surprised. I think people are surprised by the timing. With all the rumors of Max and Toto Wolf talking, RB probably freaking out because Max is the only thing that is keeping RB anywhere close to the top. Without Max, RB is completely mediocre.

SenorFunkyPants · 07-09-2025, 04:32 PM

I suspect its team Verstappen saying if Horner stays max is leaving

TheBingoBalls · 07-09-2025, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcades

I mean, there is only real two take away from all of this. It all tends to lead to Max.

Either Max has already indicated he is leaving RB and that meant Horner is donzo, or they are trying to salvage anything left to try and prevent Max from leaving.

Can't really ignore the past few years, even as a casual observer how much RB and fumbled and it is literally self caused. Horner has everything to do with it too and you can't ignore that.

Personally don't think Porsche's fallen deal had anything to do with this. Porsche historically asks for a lot because... well they are Porsche, they are kind of stuck up about that. So, I don't think it's really RB's fault for saying no.

This is ALL self caused and no one is surprised. I think people are surprised by the timing. With all the rumors of Max and Toto Wolf talking, RB probably freaking out because Max is the only thing that is keeping RB anywhere close to the top. Without Max, RB is completely mediocre.

Sort of ironic. In DTS, Horner said Mercedes/Toto are not used to not winning and it will be difficult to navigate something they haven't experienced before which is success. Seems like Red Bull are the ones who are finding it hard to navigate the tough times.

G30M · 07-09-2025, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I wonder if there's a power struggle at RB too. I mean, Horner was always in the Yoovidhya camp and Mintzlaff (Mateschitz jr. camp) wanted to get rid of him as soon as Mateschitz Sr. died. From what I've understood the firing of Horner came from the austrian side. What happened between Yoovidhya and team Mintzlaff/Mateschitz jr?

Errr... Not sure if you were hiding under a rock my friend, he's there has been an openly known power struggle since the death of dietrich mateschitz between the Austrian camp and horner. The Austrians recently managed to back stab horner and convince Thai owner to stop supporting horner

HeelToeShift · 07-09-2025, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcades

I mean, there is only real two take away from all of this. It all tends to lead to Max.

Either Max has already indicated he is leaving RB and that meant Horner is donzo, or they are trying to salvage anything left to try and prevent Max from leaving.

Can't really ignore the past few years, even as a casual observer how much RB and fumbled and it is literally self caused. Horner has everything to do with it too and you can't ignore that.

Personally don't think Porsche's fallen deal had anything to do with this. Porsche historically asks for a lot because... well they are Porsche, they are kind of stuck up about that. So, I don't think it's really RB's fault for saying no.

This is ALL self caused and no one is surprised. I think people are surprised by the timing. With all the rumors of Max and Toto Wolf talking, RB probably freaking out because Max is the only thing that is keeping RB anywhere close to the top. Without Max, RB is completely mediocre.

Let's be real, without Max they're probably P9 or dead last in the WCC.

GuidoK · 07-09-2025, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G30M

Errr... Not sure if you were hiding under a rock my friend, he's there has been an openly known power struggle since the death of dietrich mateschitz between the Austrian camp and horner. The Austrians recently managed to back stab horner and convince Thai owner to stop supporting horner

I ment a power struggle at Red Bull the fizzy drinks company..... I thought that was clear mentioning the names that rule that company, but apparently not.

G MONEY · 07-09-2025, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

No they don't and shouldn't!!! But, if he cheated, Geri did and it's none of my business.

These wives know these guys cheat. All these athletes have P-ssy thrown at them 24-7. Most can’t say no forever. They are on the road half the year, it’s a no win situation

Tiger was never the same after he stopped banging all the high end escorts. At some point, even with all that money, you get caught.

G30M · 07-09-2025, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I ment a power struggle at Red Bull the fizzy drinks company..... I thought that was clear mentioning the names that rule that company, but apparently not.

My apologies, I didn't get that! I dare day that is very likely too

Frostynorth · 07-09-2025, 08:10 PM

If they dumped Horner earlier Newey would likely still be there.

G30M · 07-09-2025, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

If they dumped Horner earlier Newey would likely still be there.

Newey doesn't have much to do with the RB F1 car, not sure why. I don't think it would make much difference.

Frostynorth · 07-10-2025, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G30M

Newey doesn't have much to do with the RB F1 car, not sure why. I don't think it would make much difference.

Weird, for years RB had a great aero package.

G30M · 07-10-2025, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

Weird, for years RB had a great aero package.

https://f1i.com/news/529968-newey-re...fore-exit.html

Adrian Newey has revealed that he was already worried about the development direction of the team’s 2024 car well before his departure, suggesting that the Milton Keynes-based outfit’s engineers underestimated the RB20’s underlying issues.

It's something I was starting to become concerned about, but not many other people in the organisation seemed to be very concerned about it.

“And the problem became more and more acute, to the point that even Max found it difficult to drive.”

Frostynorth · 07-10-2025, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G30M

https://f1i.com/news/529968-newey-reveals-concerns-about-red-bull-car-well-before-exit.html

Adrian Newey has revealed that he was already worried about the development direction of the team’s 2024 car well before his departure, suggesting that the Milton Keynes-based outfit’s engineers underestimated the RB20’s underlying issues.

It's something I was starting to become concerned about, but not many other people in the organisation seemed to be very concerned about it.

“And the problem became more and more acute, to the point that even Max found it difficult to drive.”

Interesting. Thanks for that info.

HeelToeShift · 07-10-2025, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

Weird, for years RB had a great aero package.

That's actually not true. The problems were there in late 2022 or 2023 - just Max is so freaking good you'd think the car was excellent based on his ability to drive the wheels off anything given to him. The RB21 is by all counts a terrible car yet he's consistently ahead of faster packages in the MB and Ferrari simply due what only he can behind the wheel.

Frostynorth · 07-10-2025, 05:11 PM

Am I remembering the Vettel days? Have memories of the cars regularly being faster than others in the corners.

G30M · 07-10-2025, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

Am I remembering the Vettel days? Have memories of the cars regularly being faster than others in the corners.

Things started going downhill when pierre wache took over from Adrian. I think around 2023 or something

M3WC · 07-11-2025, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

That's actually not true. The problems were there in late 2022 or 2023 - just Max is so freaking good you'd think the car was excellent based on his ability to drive the wheels off anything given to him. The RB21 is by all counts a terrible car yet he's consistently ahead of faster packages in the MB and Ferrari simply due what only he can behind the wheel.

Trying to think of someone else on the grid that would have won a race this year in RB21, let alone the two Max has won. Russell, Leclerc, Norris...I doubt it? RB would probably have at least 50 less points in constructors championship standings without Max.

Honestly since Imola last year, RB performance has been on a downward spiral. Max had only one pole after Imola last year, a 16 race stint until the end of 2024 season.

Max's race craft and ruthless driving won him the 2024 championship against the much quicker McLaren.

07-09-2025, 02:50 PM	#1299
3798j Fleet Mechanic 15372 Rep 2,263 Posts Drives: E86 3.0si Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Susquehanna Valley iTrader: (0) Garage List '64 Corvette [10.00] '68 Triumph GT6 [9.50] '19 VW Golf R [10.00] '55 Ford F100 [0.00] '08 Z4 3.0SI [8.50] '66 Triumph TR4A [0.00] '85 Corvette [0.00]	. Attached Images
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07-09-2025, 03:03 PM	#1300
GuidoK #buildnotbought 17005 Rep 6,057 Posts Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tinkering in the garage iTrader: (0)	I wonder to what extend the failure of the deal with Porsche has contributed to the firing of Horner. That deal was really fucked up. I mean, how much stake the new partner gets in the team should be something to be settled first prior to any other talks. but in the media the deal was long long under way until Porsche (or RB) backed out when Porsche wanted too much... And then also Honda came back to F1, but RB already had a deal with Ford. go figure..... That was just such a strange story for companies where/when billions are involved.... __________________ Z4 3.0i \| ESS TS2+ supercharger \| Quaife ATB LSD \| Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear \| Schrick FI cams \| Schmiedmann headers+cats \| Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings \| Vibra-technics engine mounts \| H&R anti rollbars \| KW V3 coilovers/KW camber plates \| Sachs race engineering clutch \| tons of custom sh#t
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07-09-2025, 03:49 PM	#1304
Arcades In The Rain 8744 Rep 6,732 Posts Drives: '24 GT4RS, '24 Macan GTS Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: SoCal iTrader: (1) Garage List 2024 Mazda Miata RF [0.00] 2024 Porsche Cayman ... [10.00] 2024 Porsche Macan GTS [10.00]	I mean, there is only real two take away from all of this. It all tends to lead to Max. Either Max has already indicated he is leaving RB and that meant Horner is donzo, or they are trying to salvage anything left to try and prevent Max from leaving. Can't really ignore the past few years, even as a casual observer how much RB and fumbled and it is literally self caused. Horner has everything to do with it too and you can't ignore that. Personally don't think Porsche's fallen deal had anything to do with this. Porsche historically asks for a lot because... well they are Porsche, they are kind of stuck up about that. So, I don't think it's really RB's fault for saying no. This is ALL self caused and no one is surprised. I think people are surprised by the timing. With all the rumors of Max and Toto Wolf talking, RB probably freaking out because Max is the only thing that is keeping RB anywhere close to the top. Without Max, RB is completely mediocre. __________________ '24 Porsche Cayman GT4RS Arctic Grey "Alice" '24 Porsche Macan GTS Dolomite Silver "Gina" '24 Mazda Miata RF Aero Gray "Mia"
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07-09-2025, 04:32 PM	#1305
SenorFunkyPants Brigadier General 2561 Rep 4,391 Posts Drives: 2019 M5 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I suspect its team Verstappen saying if Horner stays max is leaving
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07-09-2025, 08:10 PM	#1312
Frostynorth Weirdo 585 Rep 220 Posts Drives: 2011 e92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Middle of nowhere iTrader: (0)	If they dumped Horner earlier Newey would likely still be there.
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07-10-2025, 05:11 PM	#1318
Frostynorth Weirdo 585 Rep 220 Posts Drives: 2011 e92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Middle of nowhere iTrader: (0)	Am I remembering the Vettel days? Have memories of the cars regularly being faster than others in the corners.
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