[Alfisti]

You either need the larger car or you don't, it is that simple. BW competitor is the M3/M4, you need to give clearer direction.

Secondly, don't touch anything with turbo lag, you'll be selling it in days, you've made it abundantly clear you cannot tolerate turbo lag on this forum for years and years.

The answer to the question BTW is to buy yourself a Giulia. Even the 4 banger is a hell of a ride, tune it if you need to. EDIT I see you need manual. I'd think long and hard about a S550 Mustang PP2 Coupe. NATURALLY ASPIRATED(!!) Coyote with 460HP, 6 speed, 2+2 and it is faster around big willow than a F80 M3 Comp. It has serious chops. You will also have spare money to improve the interior, there's a huge aftermarket.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

You either need the larger car or you don't, it is that simple. BW competitor is the M3/M4, you need to give clearer direction.

The CT5 BW is clearly a competitor to the M5. CT4 BW is M3/M4. And with that, the CT5 BW diverges a lot from the M5, RWD, lighter, more visceral, more raw dynamics.

[mirob]

The mental gymnastics in this thread are wild - just to avoid the obvious.

[Bald Guy]

.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Bald Guy

Get the ct4 v blackwing and also the M2 so you have the best of both worlds. If I could only pick one, it would be the GMC but I'm biased because I have some GMC vehicles but I did used to have one BMW in the past. I guess I would try to test drive both of them to see which one you personally like the best.

cant swing two cars parking wise, otherwise I would just add a cheap vintagey manual and keep the R8

agreed some seat time in both would be great, been a while since I drove the blackwing, but its definitely hard to find them to even drive

[baege]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

You either need the larger car or you don't, it is that simple. BW competitor is the M3/M4, you need to give clearer direction.

Secondly, don't touch anything with turbo lag, you'll be selling it in days, you've made it abundantly clear you cannot tolerate turbo lag on this forum for years and years.

The answer to the question BTW is to buy yourself a Giulia. Even the 4 banger is a hell of a ride, tune it if you need to. EDIT I see you need manual. I'd think long and hard about a S550 Mustang PP2 Coupe. NATURALLY ASPIRATED(!!) Coyote with 460HP, 6 speed, 2+2 and it is faster around big willow than a F80 M3 Comp. It has serious chops. You will also have spare money to improve the interior, there's a huge aftermarket.

dont need the larger car

funny enough I got used to the turbo lag on the M2 comp after a while, until I drove a NA car again and I was like I see what I have been missing! But the S58 is pretty linear feeling

drove a 2019 Bullit, not a fan

[Bald Guy]

Originally Posted by baege

cant swing two cars parking wise, otherwise I would just add a cheap vintagey manual and keep the R8

agreed some seat time in both would be great, been a while since I drove the blackwing, but its definitely hard to find them to even drive

I have family in Canada, however, I don't they are car enthusiasts. If you ever come down to the dfw, texas area - please PM me and I'll let you drive my 6mt ct5v blackwing. : )

[Alfisti]

If you don't need the larger car then M2 all day, every day. I cannot get past the tear drop headlights on the Blackwing.

BTW the Bullit is one thing, a PP2 is another but I don't see you in a domestic. It's a fabulous engine that loves a rev though, cheap to run and find parts and sounds great.

[spazzyfry123]

Would a Lotus Emira be in budget? It would seem so if it is to replace the R8 unless freeing up cash is a part of the equation.

No turbo lag with it being supercharged, three pedals, exotic presence...

[G30M]

Originally Posted by baege

replacement for the R8

I have really enjoyed the R8, such an amazing car, but alas hedonic adaptation has reared its ugly head and I find myself wanting a manual car again

for some, the engagement of the manual is huge, I seem to be that type

replacing an R8 with an M2? oh dear. and here I am wishing for an R8. it's about what you don't have eh ...

I'd get a Mustang Dark Horse TREMEC 6MT

[x622]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Would a Lotus Emira be in budget? It would seem so if it is to replace the R8 unless freeing up cash is a part of the equation.

No turbo lag with it being supercharged, three pedals, exotic presence...

The inline 4 + dct + mods is better than the v6 + manual. Driven both. I'm holding out for the supposed v8 setup.

[jeff113]

Originally Posted by x622

The inline 4 + dct + mods is better than the v6 + manual. Driven both. I'm holding out for the supposed v8 setup.

But the recently released JB4 can add almost 100HP to the V6.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by G30M

replacing an R8 with an M2? oh dear. and here I am wishing for an R8. it's about what you don't have eh ...

I'd get a Mustang Dark Horse TREMEC 6MT

Now you mention it, I think an S550 Mach 1 is a fantastic option OP. They are even more hooked up than a PP2, 480 reliable and rev happy HP, 6 speed, really nice looking. Definitely worth a test drive.

This is a great colour and if it is a stick is worth investigating.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/ford/mus...49_/?modalXS=1

This is a better colour, has the excellent handling package and good as new
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/ford/mus...608/?modalXS=1

[See5]

CT4BW seems to be the best in-between option if you're considering those two IMO.

Has an extremely accomplished chassis and you can probably swing a killer deal from Cadillac at this point. It'll make an easy 475-500whp with just a tune if you're so inclined.

I had an S550 Mustang Bullitt with full FP suspension, 285/295 tire setup, Mach 1/PP2 shock tune, and front/rear subframe braces(basically equivalent to a GT350) and while very good, probably was still a little behind the Alpha platform cars in terms of balance and chassis integration.

In terms of a non-purpose built sportscar platform, the Alpha cars are probably at the top of the list to me.

[mjj]

I will throw one out here that I don’t believe has been mentioned…

Z4 M40i with a manual. Great engine, good sound plus a drop top when desired.

Smaller, tossable, lighter weight than an M2. Good size trunk for a convertible.

I drive my Z4 M40i more than my 25 M4c

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by x622

Blackwing all day. The M2 I had was simply not a great car, especially in manual trim. The transmission sucks due to poor shift feel. Deleting the CDV + a clutch spacer, even doing a chassis mounted race shifter did not alleviate how notchy and bad it felt.

I found the car to not be particularly communicative at the limit, and twitchy.

I’ve heard this now from several well informed enthusiasts such as yourself. It has prevented me from buying an M2 and making a mistake. Thank you.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Now you mention it, I think an S550 Mach 1 is a fantastic option OP. They are even more hooked up than a PP2, 480 reliable and rev happy HP, 6 speed, really nice looking. Definitely worth a test drive.

This is a great colour and if it is a stick is worth investigating.

was wondering if there's anything wrong with the S560 other than price and touchscreen? the Dark Horse has magnatic dampers even.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by x622

The inline 4 + dct + mods is better than the v6 + manual. Driven both. I'm holding out for the supposed v8 setup.

Very interesting. I had not heard of such rumors until now. Hard to dismiss when the comments come from the Lotus CEO himself...

What a wild machine. 4 cylinder turbo, supercharged V6, and now a V8 all as being options in the same chassis. I spent a weekend in the Highlands keeping pace through the mountains alongside a V6 variant with a little exhaust work done and had lunch with the guy. I am all-in on what the car is and can do - now with a V8...

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by mjj

Z4 M40i with a manual. Great engine, good sound plus a drop top when desired.

Smaller, tossable, lighter weight than an M2. Good size trunk for a convertible.

I drive my Z4 M40i more than my 25 M4c

How about the Supra, then? It's supposedly tuned to be more sporty than the Z4, and can be had with a manual with the B58 as well.

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Very interesting. I had not heard of such rumors until now. Hard to dismiss when the comments come from the Lotus CEO himself...

Don't get your hopes up. It's touted in the media as if it's a concrete plan, but in truth it's just a throwaway line mentioned in an earnings call. Lotus doesn't really have the budget to develop an engine for a low production car like the Emira, and they painted themselves into a corner with the EV only move. Plus, Lotus has a long history of overpromising and underdelivering...

[See5]

Originally Posted by G30M

was wondering if there's anything wrong with the S560 other than price and touchscreen? the Dark Horse has magnatic dampers even.

If you're looking for the latest Mustang, nothing now that the ECU has been unlocked. The touchscreen is not a big deal IMO. It works fine.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by G30M

was wondering if there's anything wrong with the S560 other than price and touchscreen? the Dark Horse has magnatic dampers even.

It looks terrible, just nothing works on it imho and Dark Horse prices here are 6 figures.

[BlkGS]

The S650 just doesn't really look better than the S550, and didn't really improve it any. It'sore like a refresh than a new generation.