[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Law

One could perhaps argue that we're splitting hairs but I'd say that Tesla-related talk has a broader scope than talking about Mazda, for example.

Hopefully the mods will continue to keep the politics out, i.e., whether we need to reduce carbon emissions or not, green technology in general, etc- those are separate broader topics from Tesla's business & vehicles (e.g., also applies to Nissan leaf)

I'd also argue self-driving / autopilot / autonomous should have its own thread - while Tesla's have this, it's a way broader topic than Tesla, many other vehicles has this and more (e.g., Waymo)

I'd say keep this thread focused on:

• Tesla as a business (including stock, competitive advantages, Elon's shenanigans, etc)
• Tesla vehicles as products (S3XY Truck)
• Tesla as a manufacturer (including batteries, factories, technology, et al)

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I'm certainly no MBA but didn't tesla just start actually making a profit recently? Don't get me wrong he probably totally deserves to be the 3rd richest person... probably the 1st richest. Fucking guy managed to make electric cars cool, built fucking rockets that land on their own and look super cool and is now apparently mind controlling pigs.

None of that would be possible without computers or programming, so you'd have to give the credit to the appropriate person who started that to be the richest person ever.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by premier3is

None of that would be possible without computers or programming, so you'd have to give the credit to the appropriate person who started that to be the richest person ever.

But you wouldn't have computers or programming without electricity, but then you wouldn't have electricity without power generators... if you really want to follow that line of thinking then I'm guessing the 3rd richest man owes all his success to some single cell organism...

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

But you wouldn't have computers or programming without electricity, but then you wouldn't have electricity without power generators... if you really want to follow that line of thinking then I'm guessing the 3rd richest man owes all his success to some single cell organism...

Ahh, so clearly Elon shouldn't be richest person in the world right?

Could care less about his wealth tho lol.

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Hopefully the mods will continue to keep the politics out, i.e., whether we need to reduce carbon emissions or not, green technology in general, etc- those are separate broader topics from Tesla's business & vehicles (e.g., also applies to Nissan leaf)

I'd also argue self-driving / autopilot / autonomous should have its own thread - while Tesla's have this, it's a way broader topic than Tesla, many other vehicles has this and more (e.g., Waymo)

I'd say keep this thread focused on:

• Tesla as a business (including stock, competitive advantages, Elon's shenanigans, etc)
• Tesla vehicles as products (S3XY Truck)
• Tesla as a manufacturer (including batteries, factories, technology, et al)

True and I mostly agree but I would suggest there will be some discussion around CAFE/EPA etc regulations, government grants, taxes and so on. Otherwise is it a Model 3 thread, a Model S thread, etc. For the moment the overall company is the dominant player in that market thus a thread that discusses those topics that may not be 100% model/brand/car related is somewhat relevant I feel and is probably why keeping this out of general automotive makes sense?

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by Law

Forget about the bong hit...when was the last time you saw the CEO of Mazda...period?

Gotta agree, that was definitely a moment of wait what, who is talking about Mazda?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

True and I mostly agree but I would suggest there will be some discussion around CAFE/EPA etc regulations, government grants, taxes and so on.

Yeah sounds good since that's part of the business and value prop ... for example I'm looking at an X5 45e which gets a $7500 federal tax credit; I don't know exactly how that works, but it makes the vehicle way more attractive!

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

for example I'm looking at an X5 45e which gets a $7500 federal tax credit; I don't know exactly how that works, but it makes the vehicle way more attractive!

When you do your taxes for 2020, you get to take $7,500 off what you owe the IRS. If you owe less than $7,500 you won't get a refund, though.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

If you owe less than $7,500 you won't get a refund, though.

Says who? I've got an IRS direct deposit receipt from back in March that says otherwise. Did that change for 2020?????

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Says who? I've got an IRS direct deposit receipt from back in March that says otherwise. Did that change for 2020?????

I may be mistaken. It has been two years since I got my tax credit.

[RickFLM4]

TSLA selling up to $5B in stock. The should sell as much as people will buy.

[smyles]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Says who? I've got an IRS direct deposit receipt from back in March that says otherwise. Did that change for 2020?????

$7500 of your total tax liability. For the entire year. If your income was, say, 60k and you total Fed tax liability was $4K (total bogus numbers just for the illustration purposes), you'll only get $4K rebate even if X5e allows $7,500.

And yes, in the essence, using the current terminology, US taxpayers subsidy 'the rich' yet again... and they thank you for that, if nothing else.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Says who? I've got an IRS direct deposit receipt from back in March that says otherwise. Did that change for 2020?????

But did you get a refund of what you already paid through withholding or estimated tax payments, or have total tax of less than $7,500? The "not getting a check back" may apply only to the latter. Not sure.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I'm still wrapping my head around this thread being in the Off Topic section instead of the General Automotive section. :

Haven't you heard? Per the fanboys Tesla isn't a car company. They're a technology company. Sheeesh <sarcasm>

[GenXer]

I'm waiting for a gasoline powered Tesla.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by chris719

Better that than Carlos Ghosn.

Forget EVs, Mazda and their engineers still wont give up on the Wankel.

As the former owner of a peripheral ported, fire breathing, 13B, 1974 rotary pickup I can tell you why they arent giving up. Those engines are amazing! The power to weight ratio is just supurb. So smooth, so many revs. So much fun.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by GenXer

I'm waiting for a gasoline powered Tesla.

Besides trolling Tesla owners, what purpose could such a car possibly serve?

[Captain Blood]

On the TTT, is SpaceX talk allowed?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

When you do your taxes for 2020, you get to take $7,500 off what you owe the IRS. If you owe less than $7,500 you won't get a refund, though.

Actually, BMW will pass an instant rebate of $7500 to the buyer/leaser and collect the tax rebate themselves. It sells more cars that way. I've had three i3's with $9.5k in rebates each ($7500 fed, $2000 factory). Saved quite a bit of $ leasing an EV for my daily driver.

However, some other manufacturers like Kia don't pass this on if you lease, only if you purchase. Boooo!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by smyles

And yes, in the essence, using the current terminology, US taxpayers subsidy 'the rich' yet again... and they thank you for that, if nothing else.

The $7500 credit also applies to a $32k Leaf or $37k Bolt which makes it affordable for more people, not just the rich.

Also, fed income tax is marginal. So if someone with more income wants to pay more for a $70-100k Tesla, why would they not be justified in taking a $7500 credit since they have been taxed more on marginal income? Keep in mind that they are sill paying tax on a $100k car, not a $92.5k car.

Also, that $7500 credit is adjusted for in the secondary market, and lower residual values mean the cars are more affordable for more people.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Tough to make emissions and fuel regs with a rotary. They might be good for a hybrid like the Volt...

Yes, port overlap tends to lead to unburned hydrocarbons belching out the exhaust. People used to honk and point when I was ripping on the freeway because the header was glowing cherry red. They'd think the truck was on fire. I never bothered to hook up the heater core because my radiant in-floor heading from the exhaust kept me nice and warm in the winter and miserable in the summer.

[smyles]

Originally Posted by jmg

Actually, BMW will pass an instant rebate of $7500 to the buyer/leaser and collect the tax rebate themselves. It sells more cars that way. I've had three i3's with $9.5k in rebates each ($7500 fed, $2000 factory). Saved quite a bit of $ leasing an EV for my daily driver.

However, some other manufacturers like Kia don't pass this on if you lease, only if you purchase. Boooo!

First, I'm not sure how exactly BMW arranges that, since we're talking about individual income tax credit vs. corporate entities. In simple terms, not every lessee's income is eligible to full or partial credit, yet BMW collects full amount every time (not to mention you have to own the vehicle, which lessee don't)?

Second, and this can be related to the above, there many other tax & credit stipulations (CARB, state, etc.) for car manufacturers, so they have to manipulate their EV/plugin stock and sales to maximize benefits (and minimize costs). I suspect BMW collect those, but claims 'we're passing saving to you', which technically is misleading.