[RM7]

Originally Posted by IanH

Yep, and its literally never going to be comparable to a gas car for an electric car.

Gasoline has 100x the energy density of current battery tech. Even though gas engines are far less efficient, there is just no way that an electric car will ever be capable of being used at 75%+ of its output for more than a short period of time.

Look at the steady march of EVs in Pike's Peak over the last few years, closer to the fastest overall. You can't tell me there aren't racing categories where these can dominate. That's just one example.

Sure, energy density needs to get significantly better to match endurance, but there are some interesting possibilities for quick changing batteries at the same time.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

THe Miata is a vehicle I have been critical of in terms of my own preferences but it does serve a purpose. First and foremost you need the right roads, ideally ones with a lot of bends but you can still average about 40MPH or so.

The car handles in a lovely way and is in essence the modern day cheap roadster, not a sports car, a roadster.

For shits and giggles what does the engine weight and what did the last of BMW's NA straight 6's weigh, the smallest one, the 2.5.

This is correct. The Miata is almost unbeatable for fun driving at lower speed limits on winding backroads. In New England I owned one for 6 years and my usual enjoyment driving was to head for the hills/mountains. The short gearing and 170hp in my 2013 Club model with top down made 40mph feel incredibly entertaining. Your always shifting and revving it out, but the shifter is excellent and it’s a joy to run through the gears. My former C6Z (unless being romped on), was much less fun on the same roads.
The Miata is a car that excels below 65mph in a way few cars can, unless someone owns one or drives it in it’s prime environment, it’s really a tough concept to understand as they are easy to brush off due to the stat sheet.

They are cheap fun, running costs are extremely low. It’s going to be very limited use as a DD and almost always a 2nd car in a household.

Now a Miata in C&D lightning lap…..not really sure it needed to be back again. It’s outgunned and hasn’t changed enough to warrant a spot imo.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

THe Miata is a vehicle I have been critical of in terms of my own preferences but it does serve a purpose. First and foremost you need the right roads, ideally ones with a lot of bends but you can still average about 40MPH or so.

The car handles in a lovely way and is in essence the modern day cheap roadster, not a sports car, a roadster.

For shits and giggles what does the engine weight and what did the last of BMW's NA straight 6's weigh, the smallest one, the 2.5.

353 pounds.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

353 pounds.

Blimey, 150 lbs heavier than the current Miata engine. Reakon they could cut that down to 300lbs today some 20 years later? Big ask. That's a lot of extra weight on the nose yeah. See this is the issue they're facing.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Blimey, 150 lbs heavier than the current Miata engine. Reakon they could cut that down to 300lbs today some 20 years later? Big ask. That's a lot of extra weight on the nose yeah. See this is the issue they're facing.

The N52 training manual says the N52B25 is 353 pounds, but who knows if that is a dressed weight or without accessories. The N52 is a magnesium/aluminum block hybrid design and is very lightweight compared to the Aluminum-block M54 it replaced. I also saw the weight for the N52 as 285 pounds from the internet.

[Alfisti]

The ideal engine character/power combo would be the smaller Alfa Busso's. Quite highly strung, good power, sounds like a sports car engine and super responsive. Just too heavy.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I still just don't get the Miata. Just because it doesn't have to be powerful to be fun doesn't mean it has to be under-powered either. So you build a build a sportscar that's slower than most of your premium SUV's. It makes no sense.

It does if you take into account the traditional idea of a sports car, which was basically cavalier fun. It's the reason they were all open-top, 2-seat, manual, rwd, lightweight, and bent towards handling instead of performance.

Put another way, the more serious the car, the less fun it usually is, and at 2,500 lbs or so, power makes things very serious, very quickly.

To imagine the Miata needs more hp is to not have spent enough time in a Miata. Numbers can tell a performance story, but they can't tell the whole thing.

[LH44]

ND Miata is the most fun car to drive that you can buy new today. Not one of. The. And I say that as someone who has owned or driven pretty much anything you can name this side of a mil.

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by NSXR

It does if you take into account the traditional idea of a sports car, which was basically cavalier fun. It's the reason they were all open-top, 2-seat, manual, rwd, lightweight, and bent towards handling instead of performance.

Put another way, the more serious the car, the less fun it usually is, and at 2,500 lbs or so, power makes things very serious, very quickly.

To imagine the Miata needs more hp is to not have spent enough time in a Miata. Numbers can tell a performance story, but they can't tell the whole thing.

I've spent enough time in a Miata. It feels raw and cheap being so underpowered. Mazda could do what everyone else does, offer a high performance version. The purists could still buy the base version. Most people don't have twisty roads or a track near them anyway.

Toyota offers the GR version of the Corolla and they get 300 hp out of a 1.6 turbo. Mazda could easily get 350 hp from their 2.5 Turbo. And you have the Civic Type R, Golf GTI and others. The Germans offer 3 levels of their base models and the base models outperform the Miata at not much more $. Adding 500 cc isn't going to add much weight either. I had a 500 cc motorcycle and the whole thing weighed less than 350 lbs.

Car and Driver and some of the other testers have rated the Corolla GR and Civic Type R better than the Miata. Everyone has their opinion but I'm sure a 300+ hp version would sell like hotcakes.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The ideal engine character/power combo would be the smaller Alfa Busso's. Quite highly strung, good power, sounds like a sports car engine and super responsive. Just too heavy.

Z3 and Z4 owners would likely disagree with that.

That's the problem with Miata, it's stuck in the 80s. Mazda is too fearful of angering the handful of weirdos that obsess over it, and them talking poorly to the hairdressers who buy it, they won't put in a proper engine.

S2000, Z3, Z4, they're all Miatas competitors and they're all better, because they put a better and larger motor in. I would include SLK/SLC too, but they don't offer a manual, so they're a rich teenage girl car.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I've spent enough time in a Miata. It feels raw and cheap being so underpowered. Mazda could do what everyone else does, offer a high performance version. The purists could still buy the base version. Most people don't have twisty roads or a track near them anyway.

Toyota offers the GR version of the Corolla and they get 300 hp out of a 1.6 turbo. Mazda could easily get 350 hp from their 2.5 Turbo. And you have the Civic Type R, Golf GTI and others. The Germans offer 3 levels of their base models and the base models outperform the Miata at not much more $. Adding 500 cc isn't going to add much weight either. I had a 500 cc motorcycle and the whole thing weighed less than 350 lbs.

Car and Driver and some of the other testers have rated the Corolla GR and Civic Type R better than the Miata. Everyone has their opinion but I'm sure a 300+ hp version would sell like hotcakes.

Agree. Since most of Ford's EcoBoost 4-cylinders are based originally on Mazda engine architectures Mazda easily could get reliable levels of power at 300 HP to 350 HP.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Agree. Since most of Ford's EcoBoost 4-cylinders are based originally on Mazda engine architectures Mazda easily could get reliable levels of power at 300 HP to 350 HP.

Remember last time Mazda tried that? The Speed3, Speed6, and 2.3t CX7? You never see those anymore, because they ALL blew up. It was a terribly unreliable engine, they failed when new.

I have very little confidence that Mazda could make their motor reliable with that kind of power, lol. They can't even get 350hp out of the turbo inline 6!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

S2000, Z3, Z4, they're all Miatas competitors and they're all better, because they put a better and larger motor in. I would include SLK/SLC too, but they don't offer a manual, so they're a rich teenage girl car.

These cars were or are about double the price of the Miata. Not to mention weight, a z4 was and is some 600 lbs heavier than a Miata, let alone the massive SLK. They are closer to a Cayman/Boxster.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

Mazda could do what everyone else does, offer a high performance version. The purists could still buy the base version. Everyone has their opinion but I'm sure a 300+ hp version would sell like hotcakes.

100% agree there.

[chassis]

I daily'd an NA Miata for 4 years. It was great.