[David70]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

You've never written a better description of your adult self in your life, huh?

What are you talking about?

[David70]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Wow, Tesla Model 3 was the #4 best selling car of any type in the UK in March, outselling the BMW 3-series, but doesn't make the top 10 list YTD ... something going on? What changed?

Tesla's famous end-of-quarter delivery ramp-up?



For Dave:
Step 1: Ask your Mom if it's ok to use the computer
Step 2: Navigate to the link above
Step 3: Scroll down 3 pages

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) is one of the largest and most influential trade associations in the UK. Its resources, reputation and unrivalled automotive data place it at the heart of the UK automotive industry.

Congratulations, I knew you could do it!

Not sure why anyone would care that Tesla sold 7k 3's in the U.K. in March but thanks for posting.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by David70

Not sure why anyone would care that Tesla sold 7k 3's in the U.K. in March but thanks for posting.

np, Dave. FYI, here's why people care: they're ignorant, petty & ridiculous.

You see, every year for the last 5 years the same Tesla Q1 talking points get rolled out:

► In January, Tesla haters: "ZOMG Tesla Euro sales have imploded!"
► In March, Tesla fanbois: "ZOMG Tesla Euro sales are an all-time high!"

What's going on here is 3 things:

(1.) Tesla doesn't have European factories (yet)
So all vehicles must be imported from the US or China - this takes time to make & ship the vehicles.

(2.) Tesla, driven by Musk, batches deliveries by quarter
So he can report great numbers, and get quarterly analyst sunshine.

(3.) Tesla sells as many vehicles as it can produce
So Tesla's sales numbers are irrelevant to anyone not ignorant - Tesla is battery & production capacity limited, thus why they're building factories simultaneously on 3 continents.


If you want to compare to the bigs, VW sells as many BEVs as it can make in a few days, i.e., VW has excess BEV capacity ... so who would you want to be?

The company that sells everything it can make or the company who doesn't?

[KRS_SN]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/146130...flashy-lights/

[GrussGott]

Sandy Munro has been digging into the ID.4 (after previously digging into a Model 3) and the results are like every company that's been disrupted in the last 20 years:

Old company builds new thing!
but it's really just the old thing with barely enough to make it the new thing (rather than a ground-up new design).

Tesla still has zero competitors from the Bigs except *maybe* Ford.

The coming Chinese imports will probably be Tesla's biggest competitors ...

[GrussGott]

This is really bizarre - VW releases a "new" platform that's really an old platform, with the suspension of a econobox and a bunch of super heavy unnecessary parts in a car where weight is a key factor ... The no-money quote:

"I thought they were going to design something to compete with Tesla"

"I lost 22% of charge in just a few miles"

This is not the platform that's gonna beat Tesla ... or probably even survive > 3 years.

No wonder Porsche said no thanks!

[KRS_SN]

vw going head first into this all out ev transformation producing such bland looking and performing products was a mistake. I thought you cheered them on for doing so GrussGott

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

vw going head first into this all out ev transformation producing such bland looking and performing products was a mistake. I thought you cheered them on for doing so GrussGott

I did and do! But ... as I've also been saying, the Bigs have a high probability of being disrupted by NewThing because all of their economics and incentives are around OldThing and most legacy Bigs simply can't change and ride OldThing into the dirt. (see the 3 Bs: Border's Books, Blockbuster, Blackberry)

stein_325i's road & track text says it best: VW's new BEV platform is loser. They're being disrupted.

Munro's underbody review of the car is ... Well, it's stunning that the world's largest auto manufacturer can design & build such a dud.

Overall:

* Ford might have something
* Porsche's doing well & Maybe Audi
* Benz seems to be really kicking it up a notch with their EQS designed from scratch and their kickass seeming AMG hybrids

And then all the startups ... and Tesla.

Right now the 2030 global auto market is Tesla's to lose.

[KRS_SN]

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ric-car-market

I think elon musk took on the Germans but fostered the Chinese who have been desperate to break in to the automotive industry which was the only one to not have the 'made in china' tag.
It's going to be fun.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ric-car-market

I think elon musk took on the Germans but fostered the Chinese who have been desperate to break in to the automotive industry which was the only one to not have the 'made in china' tag.
It's going to be fun.

I think it's the other way around, the Chinese fostered Elon, and I've been saying this for a year now: The Chinese BEV invasion is coming, just like the 1980s Japanese car invasion into the west. It's basic Sun Tsu industrial warfare: attack where your enemy isn't ... and which transportation area is absent Western leadership?

BEVs!

The Chinese have at least 400 BEV startups, and had them WAY before Elon showed up, but they're also actively culling them with a *published* target of ~160, i.e., only the best survive ... so why bring in Elon? BECAUSE THE CHINESE DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHO'S MAKING THE CARS, JUST THAT THEY'RE MADE IN CHINA!

The Chinese aren't stupid - they realize that Chinese branding might be troublesome - so they're spreading their bets by encouraging a Western brand because they learned that lesson in electronics when battling the Koreans or in textiles when battling ASEAN.


And, hmmmm, in what other industry did the Chinese pull this same trick and invite in a Western brand with favorable terms and use that brand to become massive ...



#AndroidOnly

[KRS_SN]

@GrussGott
you have a point

https://bydeurope.com/

https://www.just-auto.com/news/byd-p..._id201278.aspx

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...port-for-35000

[KRS_SN]

https://www.ft.com/content/055bf6d2-...a-36f412e1aff7

a sombre reminder about history.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

@GrussGott
you have a point

https://bydeurope.com/

https://www.just-auto.com/news/byd-p..._id201278.aspx

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...port-for-35000

Any large company doing business in China is working closely with the state government and the Chinese are experts at business risk/reward ... ie., if Apple closed up shop in China it would wipe out whole towns - on the other hand, Foxconn is massive, building plants all over the world including in Wisconsin in the US (though wisconsin got scammed on that one).

All of the western auto companies were in China a decade ago and China bought Volvo in 2010 in an attempt to break into the auto market ... but I think it became obvious there was no way for them to outproduce Western ICE...

But then around 2014 the Chinese realized BEVs could be a thing - and western manufacturers were nowhere. Once they started looking at the global transportation, parts, and oil markets they seem to realize they could disrupt the West:

LONDON, Sept. 14, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- 2014 may be called the "first year" of the development of Chinese electric vehicles, with annual sales reaching 74,763, 3.2 times higher than in 2013. With the ascent in the global electric vehicle market, China becomes the second largest market in the world after the United States, eyeing 23.5% market share. Among the top 20 most popular models in 2014, BYD Qin, Kandi K10, Chery QQ3 EV, Zotye E20, BAIC E150 EV and BYD e6 came from China, representing a combined 15.3% share of total sales in the global market.

So of course China would invite Tesla in, just like they did Apple.

Ultimately I think the Chinese are going after the energy market - they want to be the Middle East of 21st century energy.

China is more than happy to let Western countries fight internal sectarian culture wars while they quietly subsume majority production in every industry, and eventually become the World's reserve currency.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Any large company doing business in China is working closely with the state government and the Chinese are experts at business risk/reward ... ie., if Apple closed up shop in China it would wipe out whole towns - on the other hand, Foxconn is massive, building plants all over the world including in Wisconsin in the US (though wisconsin got scammed on that one).

All of the western auto companies were in China a decade ago and China bought Volvo in 2010 in an attempt to break into the auto market ... but I think it became obvious there was no way for them to outproduce Western ICE...

But then around 2014 the Chinese realized BEVs could be a thing - and western manufacturers were nowhere. Once they started looking at the global transportation, parts, and oil markets they seem to realize they could disrupt the West:

LONDON, Sept. 14, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- 2014 may be called the "first year" of the development of Chinese electric vehicles, with annual sales reaching 74,763, 3.2 times higher than in 2013. With the ascent in the global electric vehicle market, China becomes the second largest market in the world after the United States, eyeing 23.5% market share. Among the top 20 most popular models in 2014, BYD Qin, Kandi K10, Chery QQ3 EV, Zotye E20, BAIC E150 EV and BYD e6 came from China, representing a combined 15.3% share of total sales in the global market.

So of course China would invite Tesla in, just like they did Apple.

Ultimately I think the Chinese are going after the energy market - they want to be the Middle East of 21st century energy.

China is more than happy to let Western countries fight internal sectarian culture wars while they quietly subsume majority production in every industry, and eventually become the World's reserve currency.

And once again, the West will sit around arrogantly laughing about how the Chinese have poor quality and can only copy, not invent. We will busy ourselves with all manner of distractions while China gets down to business; the business of being THE dominant global superpower. The last time I was there I was beginning to see electric cars and scooters frequently. I'm really curious to see what it will look like when I finally go back after travel restrictions are lifted. I'll bet there's a significant uptick in BEVs.

[F32Fleet]

Elon is late on his quarterly payment. Perhaps he should use Bitcoin?

[KRS_SN]

https://www.ft.com/content/3b66fe6e-...7-cdca0cccc969

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Elon is late on his quarterly payment. Perhaps he should use Bitcoin?

bully boy tactics will work in the West where Joe investor and publc suck on the tesla juice but won't work in the East.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

bully boy tactics will work in the West where Joe investor and publc suck on the tesla juice but won't work in the East.

What does this mean? Isn't this the lady that was put in detention for 5 days and who's previously protested at other Tesla events?

it's kind of the equivalent "driverless car crashes!" when in reality the Tesla didn't have auto-pilot engaged mostly because it was never installed on that particular vehicle and so it's purely a case of old school, some kid crashes a car a runs away.

Where I grew up that didn't get "ZOMG DRIVERLESS CAR" headlines, just a picture in the crime section.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

What does this mean? Isn't this the lady that was put in detention for 5 days and who's previously protested at other Tesla events?

it's kind of the equivalent "driverless car crashes!" when in reality the Tesla didn't have auto-pilot engaged mostly because it was never installed on that particular vehicle and so it's purely a case of old school, some kid crashes a car a runs away.

Where I grew up that didn't get "ZOMG DRIVERLESS CAR" headlines, just a picture in the crime section.

like this one too

https://insideevs.com/news/501591/xp...t-allegations/

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

like this one too

https://insideevs.com/news/501591/xp...t-allegations/

Yeah, this one is bizarre:

The employee at the center of the issue, Dr. Guangzhi Cao, had admitted from the start that he uploaded Tesla’s Autopilot source code to his personal cloud-based storage account, before going to work for Xpeng's US subsidiary, XMotors.

Uh, dude, what did you expect? Kinda industrial espionagey there bro.

Back on the self-driving stuff, there's also headlines about fooling auto pilot so you can have no driver

In my day we called that "cruise control & a bungee cord" but I guess it's new

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

bully boy tactics will work in the West where Joe investor and publc suck on the tesla juice but won't work in the East.

Oops shoulda added, I found this interesting from the LA times article on it:

... On Wednesday, the Communist Party’s discipline commission said in a separate commentary that Tesla’s apology shows a better attitude than before. The woman who protested is being detained for five days.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yeah, this one is bizarre:

The employee at the center of the issue, Dr. Guangzhi Cao, had admitted from the start that he uploaded Tesla's Autopilot source code to his personal cloud-based storage account, before going to work for Xpeng's US subsidiary, XMotors.

Uh, dude, what did you expect? Kinda industrial espionagey there bro.

Back on the self-driving stuff, there's also headlines about fooling auto pilot so you can have no driver

In my day we called that "cruise control & a bungee cord" but I guess it's new

this is the reputational bullying I was referring to.First paragraph in the article...

"After two years of allegations, mostly made by Tesla CEO Elon Musk via Twitter, that Xpeng Motors was using stolen Tesla source code obtained by a former Tesla employee, it appears that wasn't the case at all".