[cc3]

CSL's will be great but like Porsche GT cars expect limited run and sky high price. Add at least 20% to CS price. Probably priced even higher than GTS models. Great halo cars but very few people will own or experience them. Many will go into collections or to speculators hoping for a big profit in secondary market.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

Simple solution, buy the one you like and fits your needs and budget. Why should everyone be forced to buy the same version? The CS is a niche model, I wouldn't buy one because of the very point you mention but I don't see how its a bad thing someone else can.

I never said it's a bad thing, and I'm sure people will buy them and be happy. It's more about the kind of choice being given.

[Darth One]

BMW is doing this because they've realized that there only nine digits in the Arabic numeral system unless they eventually do an M0. And of course, they're stuck with M as the first letter.

Personally, I'd prefer if they went to decimals instead of tacking on so many bullshit letters and words at the end. Saves on badge plastic and makes the trunk lids a lot less cluttered.

Sign me up for an M3.14 at least. In the G80 generation, I heard they will be as easy as pi to drive fast, you won't even feel the sensation of speed. Although I might splurge for the extra 20hp in the M3.69

[scflaw]

Originally Posted by Darth One

BMW is doing this because they've realized that there only nine digits in the Arabic numeral system unless they eventually do an M0. And of course, they're stuck with M as the first letter.

Personally, I'd prefer if they went to decimals instead of tacking on so many bullshit letters and words at the end. Saves on badge plastic and makes the trunk lids a lot less cluttered.

Sign me up for an M3.14 at least. In the G80 generation, I heard they will be as easy as pi to drive fast, you won't even feel the sensation of speed. Although I might splurge for the extra 20hp in the M3.69

Don’t be fooled. the M3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937 51058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170 67982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408 12848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038 1964428810975665933446 Competition package is the real deal.

[emulajavi]

Is there enough market for FOUR types of M cars?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle

Complaining use to be..."why don't we get the limited models in the US?" Now that they are offered here, it is complaining that there are too many models.

E9x M3 had numerous variants, just not all offered in the US(Base, ZCP, CRT, GTS, Lime Rock, DTM Ed.)

Exactly.

Originally Posted by E21-myfirstlove

I dunno gang. M cars used to be all about the track? What on an OG M6 is track-specific? (Okay engine thats it) How about the e30 brakes? Were those real special? The OG M5's 15" wheels? Suspension?

No, they never were. They've always been ready to be modded for capable track use.

I think M is slicing it pretty thin between the Competition and CS, but if legit CSL models hit our shores I'm cool with them making the lineup as messy and profitable as they like...

[PLF69]

At the end its always about the $$ anyways. Every decision they make as a reason.

[cc3]

E9 CSL production worldwide 1265
M3 CSL production worldwide 1358

So these are very small production high price vehicles in 2004 a new M3 CSL was £59,000 !!

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Jesus, could they slice the cheese any thinner? They have some Porsche product planners working there? Damn. m Sport, M Performance, Full M, M Comp, M CS and M CSL

WTF is the point?

Just need M sport, Full M, and CSL IMO.

There are many different types of M-buyers. BMW tested this out with the E46 (base, competition, CSL), added the GTS to the line up with the E9x, and of course you have all these variations with the current lineups.

There are plenty of consumers who will pay for a M-badge and who have no intention of ever tracking the car.

[FLOSS M]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Off topic but I just picked up a Nespresso Delonghi Lattissma Pro. Love this thing.

Back on topic.

Just another way to squeeze more cashola out of all of us for minimal performance gains depending on the jump that's made.

Come on guys. Didn't you know. Everyone gets an ///M nowadays

+1 on the Nespresso Machine lol

///M Dilution

[marcva]

Originally Posted by cncmastr

I think i can entertain such a mythical vehicle...

They built an m5 LMP... Anyone remember that car?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Lots of guys know me on here and how much I love M cars in general and M3s in particular.

But a recent visit to a bmw dealer revealed a price of 102k on an M3 CS. That's insane for a car based on what amounts to a 35k 320i.

An M3 makes sense at 70, maybe 80k. But once you get near 100...why not just get a car that doesn't need to make any compromises for lower level siblings?

They’ve got an M3 CS at my dealer that’s 112K if I remember correctly. It’s a beautiful car, and I think it’s the best sounding version of the S55 that I’ve heard (including the aftermarket options).

But I agree - that’s on a whole other planet from a pricing perspective. My ZCP was ~77k in March 2017. Hard to imagine paying more than 30K additional a very similar car.

I’m glad they’re making these other versions of M cars, but the pricing seems to be too aggressive...

[bigjae1976]

Lol...M for the racetrack. :

That's a good one BMW...needed a laugh this morning!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

Didn't bmw say they dropped the csl? Right before they announced that they'll be selling the performance parts separately?

BMW did not say anything at all. Officially the car does not exist. But sources confirmed that the hardcore M2 project has definitely existed (lots of CF materials), but was axed close to Autumn 2017. A few months later a lavish set of M Performance Parts unexpectedly got released for the M2 and M2 Competition (see for example here), as if those parts were initially developed for a hardcore M2, that got 'parted out' (except for engine modifications).

Nothing's written in stone and things ebb and flow as time goes by. There are signs to expect a cool M2 cat being let out of the bag closer to the end of the F87 life cycle.

[imserious]

This is lame. Makes business sense extracting more value from an existing platform. I suppose it actually reflects that BMW owners are lame because people are buying cars for the badge.

Not dissimilar to the Porsche strategy at all. How many people track those cars or even approach the limits... 1%?

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by imserious

This is lame. Makes business sense extracting more value from an existing platform. I suppose it actually reflects that BMW owners are lame because people are buying cars for the badge.

Not dissimilar to the Porsche strategy at all. How many people track those cars or even approach the limits... 1%?

Less then 1%. Most Porsche Drivers are Grandpas that barely do the speed limit

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Off topic but I just picked up a Nespresso Delonghi Lattissma Pro. Love this thing.

Originally Posted by FLOSS M

+1 on the Nespresso Machine lol

I got two of those since release. Though my wife sometimes still uses the genuine Bialetti moka pot. She's Italian: "Bialetti, what else ?"



OK, back on topic.

[Fugly M3]

So basic M is going to be relegated to what Audi's S line has become...they'll charge more and more however they can I guess!

[ismelllikepoop]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

So basic M is going to be relegated to what Audi's S line has become...they'll charge more and more however they can I guess!

They did the same calling the 3 coupe a 4 following Audi's plan to jack up the price.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

Simple solution, buy the one you like and fits your needs and budget. Why should everyone be forced to buy the same version? The CS is a niche model, I wouldn't buy one because of the very point you mention but I don't see how its a bad thing someone else can.

Resources and differentiation. In other words, different for the sake of being different.

MPerformance / M / CSL is plenty.

If you have so many tiers, engineers have to try to find reasons to make them different, in order to give you a reason to buy it. But that dilutes the underlying car. Why not spend time and resources to make the actual base car better? Why have so many Goldilocks choices? So while we are spoiled for choice, those choices are a bit diluted.

Stop trying to be all things to all people and dial in on the mission of the car.

[JMon]

How about hey just start with the series and then the nurburgring lap time. That should clarify ranking nicely.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ismelllikepoop

They did the same calling the 3 coupe a 4 following Audi's plan to jack up the price.

Any random guess why ?

"BMW M boss Frank van Meel leaves to head up BMW total vehicle development
By Jordan Katsianis - 21 Sep 2018
Champion of the all-wheel drive BMW M5 to be replaced by 8-series chief engineer
BMW M boss Frank van Meel is to move from his post to a new one, heading up BMW total vehicle development, after a relatively short stint. The move is due on October 1st and into his place within the M division will slot the chief engineer from the BMW 8-series project, Markus Flasch.
Van Meel was initially poached from Audi Quattro GmbH (now Audi Sport) to head up the division, in the process introducing lots of new elements to BMW M, such as the switchable all-wheel drive system and a torque converter automatic gearbox in the current F90 BMW M5.
Alongside these technical changes van Meel created a new hierarchy within the M range with halfway-house M Performance models sitting below, and full M models now split in to Competition and CS versions with an eventual return of flagship CSL cars planned. As van Meel has remained under the BMW umbrella, we don’t expect this product plan to change much once his successor is in place.
There is plenty of incoming product that will bare van Meel’s stamp too, including the first BMW X3 M and X4 M, the all-new M8, BMW M’s first ever hybrids and even a hot hatch.
His replacement Markus Flasch has come into the role after being chief project engineer of the new 8-series, and will approach the next generation M3/4 as his first real test. The standard 3-series is now only weeks away from its reveal, but rumors of a hybridised all-wheel drive powertrain might make the next M3 the biggest step yet for the M division, a mighty undertaking for the new M boss in his initial 18 months in the job.
It will be interesting to see if Flasche has his own ideas as to the future of BMW M, and what stamp he’ll leave on the iconic M division."
(source: here)

Repost: BMWBlog interview with BMW M boss Frank Van Meel at the 2017 Detroit Auto Show (January 2017) (01:18 to 03:13):

"For us the M4 GTS is and was a halo car which helped M a lot regarding communication in 2016. The cars were sold out immediately. What was more important for us was that this car, driving 07m28s on the Nürburgring, is within the super sports car league, even though it is a series production car building its base. But it's typically what M stands for to bring that motorsports properties into a car that can also be used on everyday roads. And it also strengthened the performance of the M3/M4 as the base cars that were behind that. And we are really happy with that car and we still have a lot of demand even though it's already sold out for a long time. But there are many people saying «Please make another special car or more special cars». And we're going to react to these demands and bring more special cars in the future. Well, the M2 has exceeded everyone's expectations. The customer demand has been so big that we're still working on increasing our production volumes to fulfill our customer needs, but we plan to get it in balance again in the year 2017 so that we get more cars available for our customers. We do plan to continue this tradition of making special models, especially the fact that the demand for competition packages was/is so high with M3/M4 is for us a signal to continue this in the future with more models, as well as the fact that the M4 GTS was sold out immediately which also had a long tradition with M3 special models. But we're planning to do that more often, not only to wait 5 to 7 years, but to bring more special models on a shorter time base."
(source: here)

In September 2017 BMW M boss Frank Van Meel confirmed a "CSL" reboot and explained the envisioned distinction between future "CS" and "CSL" ///M models:

"Van Meel said that the CSL designation will replace GTS on the four-rung hierarchy of M cars, which starts with the base model then progresses to Competition Pack, CS, then CSL. Like the GTS, CSLs will be BMW M's most hardcore offerings.
«CSL [will be] the top-of-the-line track tool, made on the track for the track, just with a number plate,» Van Meel said. With a CSL, you can expect cup tires, coilover suspension, a roll cage, water injection, and a fire extinguisher. Van Meel says that the CS on the other hand is «also a track tool, but with four seats,» and more emphasis on comfort."
(source: here)