[khp3655]

Sometimes I will come across a low mileage, older e85/86 Z4. A few of them look like good deals. Are they reliable fun cars or are they money pits waiting to suck people like me in?

[3798j]

Your post gave us a mixed message...in your heading it lists Z4's '03-'05, in your post you point to the E86 Z4, the coupe, which was produced from '06-08.
Anyway, I've had my '08 E86 for close to 15 years. I've used it lightly, enjoyed it immensely, and have found it to not be a horror show in keeping it in top shape. Getting involved with old cars can be a crap shoot, but I don't think the E85/E86 is a bad investment. Obviously the more miles driven increases the operating costs and we know BMW parts are on the more expensive side compared to most other makes. Many components like gaskets, water pumps, ABS modules, clutches, etc. can be expected to be needed as the years pile up. Nothing to be frightened of and cheaper if you can do your own work.
The attached links will lead you to believe you should have already invested in one. The N52 engine was first found in the '06 Z4's, but the M54 found in the earlier cars is just as well thought of.

https://carbuzz.com/features/most-reliable-bmw/

https://www.theautopian.com/how-bmw-...worst-engines/

https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/11/09/b...ciency-tuning/

https://thecarinvestor.com/will-bmw-...uture-classic/

[khp3655]

Thanks. I fixed/edited my initial post to make it more clear. Yes. I agree on the crap shoot. Still, when I see a 2003 Z4 with 23K miles for $8900 and a clean car fax, it seems like a potential good deal. Then again, I also have experienced how BMW plastics can tend to break down after 10 years or so, so a 22 year old BMW could be asking for trouble.

[Mech Spec]

If you wanna wrench on it yourself its probably one of the more spacious engine bays I have ever seen. Worth it to get the M if you are gonna go there.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Mech Spec

If you wanna wrench on it yourself its probably one of the more spacious engine bays I have ever seen. Worth it to get the M if you are gonna go there.

The S54 M Roadster is a hidden gem

Plastics do tend to age poorly, cup holders are useless, the rear center console latch always breaks, the SAT Nav screen is finicky , the hydro top motor is in a poorly placed location and tends to die due to water

If you intend to spend some money to refurb it and do the maintenance, the E85 M roadster is a treat to drive

[Efthreeoh]

The E86 came only with the N52, which is a tank motor, but can require the trifecta of oil gaskets maintenance. You can google the info. The E85 2.5L and 3.0L from '03 - '05 came with the M54, which is a stout reliable engine as well. The '06 E85 came with the N52. The 3.0si in either the E85 or E86 is the 260 HP DISA N52. I've had all three variants in the 3.0L class, a M54 in an E46 330i, a non-DISA N52 in my E90, and the DISA N52 in my 3.0si Z4 Coupe.

My E90 has 426,000 on the original N52, and my Z4 is at 123,000. The M54 I had for a short term from 100,000 to 135,000 miles. I have lots of experience with the N52. I think it is BMW's best N/A straight-6, with the M54 a very close second place.

The build quality of the E85/86 is superb. I bought my Z4 Coupe when it was 8 years old and just 23,000 miles. I ran it as a partial daily driver 165 miles a day 2 to 3 days a week for 7 years. It's has held up extremely well to that abuse. I have the M-sport seats, which are still in excellent shape. The rest of the interior is still in great shape. You do have to be gentle with the cup holders, but they don't hold anything larger than a 12 Oz. beer... err... soda can. If you have a water bottle, you just stick it behind the passenger seat.

I've owned 5 BMWs in all (still have 3 of them) and my opinion is the Z4 is one of BMW's best built and reliable models. A buddy of mine had a '06 E85 for about 5 years and he had no problems with it. IIRC, his had 65,000 when he bought it.

The plastics on BMWs after 2000 are far better than '80s and '90s BMWs. (I also have a Z3 and the plastics absolutely suck in the Z3). My 17-year-old Z4 has had no issues related to age of the plastics. The cubbyhole door does have a plastic tab that can break off and leave the cubby interior light on when the engine is running. My car did have that problem too along with me breaking the cupholder, but neither is related to plastic age, more just a bad engineering design. I easily fixed the cubbyhole door tab with a wood screw I had laying around in my shop; all it does is keep a plunger switch depressed when the cubbyhole door is closed.

If you find a good example of either model, get it. They are BMW's best kept secret IMO.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by khp3655

Thanks. I fixed/edited my initial post to make it more clear. Yes. I agree on the crap shoot. Still, when I see a 2003 Z4 with 23K miles for $8900 and a clean car fax, it seems like a potential good deal. Then again, I also have experienced how BMW plastics can tend to break down after 10 years or so, so a 22 year old BMW could be asking for trouble.

The '03 did have a possible problem with the steering column binding, but BMW had a TSB fix for it and most '03s by this time have been sorted out.

[ptpending]

the M54 glory is not absolute
those who live in areas which could have -20 C temp(Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Baltic states and so on to east) do know that M54 injector have gasket which will become loose at -20 C and colder and fuel will be outside of the injector
From that standpoint N52 is more reliable.

[TriumphTim]

I think "reliable" and "money pit" has to be defined in context of an older car and.or the owner's expectations.

It seems like engine/tran/chassis have low chance of complete failure but general maintenance and fixing weak points may be time consuming or expensive.

Do you do your own work or have a good independent shop? Maybe get a pre-purchase inspection on something that interests you and see what they say? Even low mileage cars will still have aged plastic and seals.

[chrisbin]

They're great! I agree with the "best kept secret" statement. We have a 2004 3.0 on 86k miles and the engine is sweet as a nut. Members of a quite active Z community here in UK and very little gets mentioned outside of normal maintenance items.
The best fix for the roof motor issue is to get it moved to the boot/trunk.
The simplicity of the Z4 interior has aged really well - a 2008 350Z we had previously felt a LOT older.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TriumphTim

I think "reliable" and "money pit" has to be defined in context of an older car and.or the owner's expectations.

It seems like engine/tran/chassis have low chance of complete failure but general maintenance and fixing weak points may be time consuming or expensive.

Do you do your own work or have a good independent shop? Maybe get a pre-purchase inspection on something that interests you and see what they say? Even low mileage cars will still have aged plastic and seals.

It's been my experience with five different 3-series platform BMWs I've owned since 1988 and over 1M miles driving them, the E85/86 chassis has been the least problematic of any of them. The E37 (Z3) has been the most "unreliable", which means the interior plastics on it totally suck. I bought my Z4 Coupe at 8 years old and just 23,000 on the clock, so it was a low mileage example, and it had no issues with the rubber or plastic components. It still doesn't now at 17 years old.

I'm emphatically stating the E85/86 platform is very well built with good materials used throughout.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ptpending

the M54 glory is not absolute
those who live in areas which could have -20 C temp(Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Baltic states and so on to east) do know that M54 injector have gasket which will become loose at -20 C and colder and fuel will be outside of the injector
From that standpoint N52 is more reliable.

The N52 and M54 have literally the same O ring on the pressure side of the injectors.
It's the same size and same partnumber.
So if that happens structually on M54's (which I never heard of, but I don't live in a very cold climate) it's probably an age thing, although, now in 2025 I can't see how that 3 years in age difference will be significant (the one car is ~22 years old, the other ~19...).

The M54 might have a few more quirks (disa and vanos), but is way cheaper to fix due to available aftermarket fixes (disa rebuild and separate vanos rings, both can be done for under $100).
The N52 has a fairly expensive electric waterpump ($700 from BMW, aftermarket brands are cheaper of course) that occasionally fails, and the cylinderheads are prone to have lifter tick on cold starts. Not really damaging that last one, but irritating and virtually impossible to fix permanently (except for getting a new head, but no one does that of course).

[TriumphTim]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It's been my experience with five different 3-series platform BMWs I've owned since 1988 and over 1M miles driving them, the E85/86 chassis has been the least problematic of any of them. The E37 (Z3) has been the most "unreliable", which means the interior plastics on it totally suck. I bought my Z4 Coupe at 8 years old and just 23,000 on the clock, so it was a low mileage example, and it had no issues with the rubber or plastic components. It still doesn't now at 17 years old.

I'm emphatically stating the E85/86 platform is very well built with good materials used throughout.

I agree with your general evaluation of the chassis and material aspects, I have similar experience currently owning an E30, E46, and E90. But are you saying you haven't spent any money or time on maintaining the Z4?

My reply was toward how a potential owner may define money pit, is it $100 in parts and a weekend of DIY labor every month to maintain instead of being with family or friends? $500 every few months? An initial $3000 hit of deferred maintenance at a shop after purchase but smooth sailing for the next year?

Absolutely no disrespect to the OP but asking if a 20yo BMW is a "money pit" is the wrong question, it will need care and maintenance regardless of mileage. All cars are money pits, a person needs to decide if the joy of ownership is worth the cost in time and money.

I think a PPI will give a good overview of what a car needs and the going rate for maintenance, the $100 would be well spent to see what someone is getting into if they don't plan to DIY.

[khp3655]

Originally Posted by TriumphTim

I agree with your general evaluation of the chassis and material aspects, I have similar experience currently owning an E30, E46, and E90. But are you saying you haven't spent any money or time on maintaining the Z4?

My reply was toward how a potential owner may define money pit, is it $100 in parts and a weekend of DIY labor every month to maintain instead of being with family or friends? $500 every few months? An initial $3000 hit of deferred maintenance at a shop after purchase but smooth sailing for the next year?

Absolutely no disrespect to the OP but asking if a 20yo BMW is a "money pit" is the wrong question, it will need care and maintenance regardless of mileage. All cars are money pits, a person needs to decide if the joy of ownership is worth the cost in time and money.

From what I am reading, it sounds like they can be really reliable cars, but like any older model, will require some time and attention.

I think a PPI will give a good overview of what a car needs and the going rate for maintenance, the $100 would be well spent to see what someone is getting into if they don't plan to DIY.

As the OP, I meant "money pit" in the sense of something always going wrong and needing attention to the point where lots of time and some money would be constantly spent fixing it and not much time driving it and feeling comfortable that nothing will likely go wrong.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TriumphTim

I agree with your general evaluation of the chassis and material aspects, I have similar experience currently owning an E30, E46, and E90. But are you saying you haven't spent any money or time on maintaining the Z4?

My reply was toward how a potential owner may define money pit, is it $100 in parts and a weekend of DIY labor every month to maintain instead of being with family or friends? $500 every few months? An initial $3000 hit of deferred maintenance at a shop after purchase but smooth sailing for the next year?

Absolutely no disrespect to the OP but asking if a 20yo BMW is a "money pit" is the wrong question, it will need care and maintenance regardless of mileage. All cars are money pits, a person needs to decide if the joy of ownership is worth the cost in time and money.

I think a PPI will give a good overview of what a car needs and the going rate for maintenance, the $100 would be well spent to see what someone is getting into if they don't plan to DIY.

Yes, it has not been a money pit. I am saying based on my extensive experience owning five versions of a BMW 3 series, which is now just over 37 years and about 1.1M miles of ownership, the Z4 has required the least amount of repair comparative to the other four Bimmers I've had and still have. That list includes an 18-year and 256,000 mile E30, a 27-year 200,000 mile Z3, a 135,000 mile E46 (I had it just for 30 months), and a 19-year 426,000 E90.

I did just change the DISA valves in the Z4 because I had the intake off to repair rodent damage to the knock sensors harness, but the DISAs were in decent condition. Other than a broken drivers cup holder and the pin for the cubby light switch, no other breakage of parts. It's been routine maintenance otherwise.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by khp3655

As the OP, I meant "money pit" in the sense of something always going wrong and needing attention to the point where lots of time and some money would be constantly spent fixing it and not much time driving it and feeling comfortable that nothing will likely go wrong.

My Z4 is just the only E86 I've owned and I bought an 8-year-old sample with low miles (23K), so my experience is just one of one, but I've seen a few other E85/86 in the past 10 years and all seemed to be on par with mine as far as condition. If you find one that has been driven and maintained well, in my opinion, it will not be a money pit. I used to daily mine on a 165-mile daily round trip commute on some serious backroads in Central Virgina. It shared commuting duty with my E90 from December 2014 to 2019, when I added a E46 cabrio to the mix thru the end of December 2021.

For the four (4) full calendar years between January 2015 through December 2018 my annual mileage on just the Z4 averaged 17,300 miles. From January 2019 through December 2021 the annual average was 7,100 for the Z4. And those miles were all aggressively driven miles. The E85/86 is a tough little machine. I've put it through its paces. Remember though mine is an N52 car, not an M-car.

[Chex_Lemeneux]

Originally Posted by TriumphTim

Maybe get a pre-purchase inspection on something that interests you and see what they say?

This! While I'm a recent (Nov 2024) owner I certainly can attest to the PPI. I spent a considerable amount of $$ to get my 05 2.5i (32Kmiles) up to standards, but I also took the road less traveled and purchased a rebuilt title car. The PPI is essential in buying any used car. If you're buying out of state it takes legwork on your part to find a reputable shop willing to pick up the car and give it a once over. At the end of the day I spent about 5K doing a host of things that were either necessary (e.g., starter, valve cover gasket and oil filter housing) or just smart to handle before trouble begins (e.g., transmission and differential drain and fills, hoses, pulleys, tires, plugs and coils, etc.,)

Go with what makes you happy and what you're willing to do, but I've been pleased with my decision and this thread along with others have made me much more content with my choice and confident in the overall ability of the car to stand up to the test of time