[adc100]

I would take the X3 for sure.

Now don't laugh.. but the ideal SUV would be the FA20 Turbo engine in the Subaru Crosstrek. Sadly it will never happen.

That crosstrek handles like a sports car..I know you can laugh..but test drive one just for the hell of it you'll see. Sadly its under posered with a 152 HP totally different engine.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

A few months ago I helped my dad get a new Macan S, exactly that exterior combination pictured but with the wheels gloss black. It's a total head turner, people take photos and stop to compliment it.

I haven't driven the new X3 or GLC but I have driven the Q5 which is mostly boring. The Macan S has pretty decent acceleration, sounds nice with the sport exhaust, and handles well. The steering is quick and does weigh up even parking lot speeds, but it's still too light for my tastes. Overall it drives like a car which is a plus. Interior feels very 2015, infotainment system isn't as user friendly as the other German makes. Money factors are high so it will lease poor relative to the others, but this depends a lot on location and the promotions their banks are running. You can get a solid deal sometimes.

Overall you'll have to see if the driving dynamics and styling/exclusivity of Porsche ownership trump the drawbacks of its poor leasing and sub-par interior/tech.

Yeah the Macan has the "it" factor to look at. I might look into a 2 year old low mileage Macan S and just pay cash. Seems like a lot of 2018s around.

On the tech, Oh yeah I remember my Cayenne. I'm one of those guys that HATES to read manuals. It's sort of a confession of impotence to me (I know it isn't really). But that Cayenne had a nav system I could not figure out with trial and error. Once I read the manual and spent 30 minutes with it no problems. In fact it was incredibly good at finding places other navs couldn't. There was one place in California that I used to buy custom guitars from. His shop was literally under a highway overpass (well you drove under it yo get there). Most navs would get you close but never get the last half a mile right. The Cayenne was perfect.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Having not driven any of them I still feel confident saying they all have plenty of passing power. Shit I've never had any issues passing in my corolla so... unless by passing you mean passing a ferrari... who does not wish to be passed... in which case I doubt any of them will work

Based strictly on looks I would just go with the macan because it's the sexiest looking one.

Well, I mean when I want to pass I don't want to take much time doing it.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quad. Drive one and you will quickly be sold, there's really nothing like it and the 2.9L V6 with 505HP is pretty awesome. It's the only SUV I've driven that really handles like a sports car. Biggest concern is obviously long-term reliability, but apparently you can get up to an 8-year 125k mile warranty from FCA which I didn't find out until yesterday. Max warranty is around $7k, less mileage/years $3-5k. I see a lot of 2018 models in the $55-65k price range.

A 2017+ Macan GTS is also a great car, not quite as exciting to drive as the Stelvio Quad though having 130 less HP. I much prefer the looks of the GTS over most Turbo models, people don't usually spec the turbos with all of the black trim/wheels/lowered suspension/etc. You can always put a Cobb tune on it to get more power out of it if needed. 2017+ also has the updated head unit with Apple Carplay.

Got to admit the Alfa name worries me. Friend had one back in the 70s and it was a PITA. But heck, they have a dealership walking distance to BMW, Porsche and Audi. I'll stop in a look.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by adc100

I would take the X3 for sure.

Now don't laugh.. but the ideal SUV would be the FA20 Turbo engine in the Subaru Crosstrek. Sadly it will never happen.

That crosstrek handles like a sports car..I know you can laugh..but test drive one just for the hell of it you'll see. Sadly its under posered with a 152 HP totally different engine.

My wife laughs every time a Subaru commercial comes on the TV. Because she knows I HATE their ad campaign. Subaru means "love". They actually make good cars (not that I want one) but the ads -

As to the Crosstech I never drove one. Interesting concept though.

[strohw]

The following is just my opinion so take it as is.

The Macan S makes zero sense to me from a price point when new. It's a sub compact suv(less than 18cuft cargo) that costs 61k base with a color option and comes with cheap black plastic skirting like some low rent SUV. The stock wheels are also pretty ugh in real life. But it has a nice looking body so OK lets spruce it up. Move up to 20" wheels because they're the first non ugh option - 3k. Get rid of the silly black plastic skirting - 3.6k. Now our Macan S is almost 68k just to make it not look like some cheap SUV, but we still need to add all our packages to it.

So, why not just spend 3k more and get a GTS which includes all the body options to make it look nice, more power(and better motor on the 2020), better suspension and more packages. It baffles me when people are spending 75-85k on Macan S when that price almost always includes a pile of money to make it look similar to what a GTS looks like stock.

To summarize, it costs too much to make it look like it should and it does not look like it justifies its price when you don't.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by strohw

The following is just my opinion so take it as is.

The Macan S makes zero sense to me from a price point when new. It's a sub compact suv(less than 18cuft cargo) that costs 61k base with a color option and comes with cheap black plastic skirting like some low rent SUV. The stock wheels are also pretty ugh in real life. But it has a nice looking body so OK lets spruce it up. Move up to 20" wheels because they're the first non ugh option - 3k. Get rid of the silly black plastic skirting - 3.6k. Now our Macan S is almost 68k just to make it not look like some cheap SUV, but we still need to add all our packages to it.

So, why not just spend 3k more and get a GTS which includes all the body options to make it look nice, more power(and better motor on the 2020), better suspension and more packages. It baffles me when people are spending 75-85k on Macan S when that price almost always includes a pile of money to make it look similar to what a GTS looks like stock.

To summarize, it costs too much to make it look like it should and it does not look like it justifies its price when you don't.

The more I research the more I come full circle back to the M Sport X5. Yeah, it isn't the handling machine a Porsche is but same or less money and more room and comfort and I still get my power. I may be close to deciding. Big issue is - got a BMW lease thru June 15. Not sure of they ever let people out of a lease early with no penalty if they jump into another lease right away. If they did I think this would be in my garage next week.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

My wife laughs every time a Subaru commercial comes on the TV. Because she knows I HATE their ad campaign. Subaru means "love". They actually make good cars (not that I want one) but the ads -

As to the Crosstech I never drove one. Interesting concept though.

Lol... You can always say it for your wife. And its a Crosstrek no big deal though. You can check it out on youtubes. The XI looked interesting for me it sat too low. Lots of HP though. Nice vehicle for sure.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Got to admit the Alfa name worries me. Friend had one back in the 70s and it was a PITA. But heck, they have a dealership walking distance to BMW, Porsche and Audi. I'll stop in a look.

You are basing your opinions of Alfa on one friend's experience 50 years ago?? A lot has changed in 50 years.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

My wife laughs every time a Subaru commercial comes on the TV. Because she knows I HATE their ad campaign. Subaru means "love". They actually make good cars (not that I want one) but the ads -

I find those "love" commercials quite ironic. Some of the most opinionated, angry, closed-minded people I have met (who happen to also be clueless drivers) are Subaru owners. So much for "love". They are a unique crowd for sure.

For example, I was speaking to a well-educated professional about counterfeiting and China. She said she doesn't believe it and got angry at me. Then she said she didn't think anyone in China could do something that bad. I then asked her if she drove a Subaru. She asked "how did you know". So maybe there is too much "love" with Subaru owners and they love what China has done to the whole world? Maybe they think if they gave China a hug, everything would be okay?

[TheAcAvenger]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Maybe our definition of sporty is different. I know no SUV is a Ferrari or Corvette. In fact I'm pretty sure no SUV out there will handle like my current 540i. I just don't want a station wagon ride. I want to have passing power and stable handling.

I had an early Cayenne S and something along that range of power and handling works for me.

Since you tried all of them which did you like better than the others?

Funny you say that, because if you asked me "what's the sportiest driving suv you remember driving?", i'd say the 2nd gen cayenne S I drove!

I liked the Macan, but found the interior to be sorely lacking and found the power curve to be underwhelming (but I had the highest expectations, so there's an inherent value bias here). I think the GTS feels more exciting than the Turbo. With the interior refresh, it's probably the best, but it's not a good value proposition compared to the others at all.

I'd say the F-Pace was the most exciting, but I wouldn't buy one because I'm terrified of owning a jag. The SQ5 was the nicest place to hang out, but the least gratifying to drive. The GLC to me was the biggest surprise and it might have actually won me over if not for the tech being outdated. They've fixed that for the 2020, so I think you will probably like it the most. It feels the most premium, it has the best steering (excluding the jag), it feels the nicest. It probably feels more cramped than the others.

The X3 just didn't do anything for me. It feels like it has the highest seating position and the biggest greenhouse effect, so it feels the least sporty to me. I didn't try an X4, but maybe I should have? I think after 13 straight years of BMWs, I'm bored with their interior design and just can't get enthused about buying another one. Like you, I really like audi's new interior design language but it's still not coming in the Q5 refresh. I will probably end up in a Q8, but you should really give the GLC if youre looking for something in that size range that feels sporty. It really is a nice ride and good bang for the buck.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I find those "love" commercials quite ironic. Some of the most opinionated, angry, closed-minded people I have met (who happen to also be clueless drivers) are Subaru owners. So much for "love". They are a unique crowd for sure.

For example, I was speaking to a well-educated professional about counterfeiting and China. She said she doesn't believe it and got angry at me. Then she said she didn't think anyone in China could do something that bad. I then asked her if she drove a Subaru. She asked "how did you know". So maybe there is too much "love" with Subaru owners and they love what China has done to the whole world? Maybe they think if they gave China a hug, everything would be okay?

She didn't think counterfeiting goes on in China? It's hard to believe anyone is that naive.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by thebmw

You are basing your opinions of Alfa on one friend's experience 50 years ago?? A lot has changed in 50 years.

True dat. But not my impression. I'll go check them out and see what a new impression is like. Got two months and nothing to lose. I did look at them on Consumers Reports. Can't hurt to look.

[strohw]

Alfa has terrible residuals so their products lease terrible. The 2 year lease residual is about 4-5% down compared to a X3. Those numbers double on a 3 year lease.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

She didn't think counterfeiting goes on in China? It's hard to believe anyone is that naive.

The naivety was caused by a preformed opinion that was unchangeable due to a closed-minded/ignorant view. Couple that with this false "love" (she is super left-wing) and you have the recipe for a Subaru diehard. Seen it time and time again.

On topic now, I've heard that the Alfa Stelvio is actually the best driver's compact SUV. It should be more affordable than the Macan (which is a great drivers compact SUV as well) and Alfa will deal much better than Porsche. X3 seems to be the best all around choice though. MB has better interiors. Audi is a has-been.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

My wife laughs every time a Subaru commercial comes on the TV. Because she knows I HATE their ad campaign. Subaru means "love". They actually make good cars (not that I want one) but the ads -

As to the Crosstech I never drove one. Interesting concept though.

I don't think you can just go buy a subaru anyways. I think they only sell them in Colorado and you're required to have a hipster beard and go trout fishing during your lunch break. Or so I've heard.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I don't think you can just go buy a subaru anyways. I think they only sell them in Colorado and you're required to have a hipster beard and go trout fishing during your lunch break. Or so I've heard.

Actually, Colorado came in 5th place. Here are the percent of Subaru sales based on the state’s overall automotive sales:

1 Vermont 11.3%
2 Maine 6.5%
3 New Hampshire 5.8%
4 Connecticut 4.4%
5 Colorado 4.3%
6 Oregon 4.1%
7 Montana 4.0%
7 Alaska 4.0%
9 Washington 3.8%
10 Massachusetts 3.6%

#1 is Vermont...not surprising as we know that Bernie fans and Subaru fans are inextricably linked. If you've ever spoken to a Bernie fan about how it is impossible to make everything in America free, that's what it is like to talk to a Subaru fan about China's counterfeiting.

https://www.iseecars.com/most-subaru...ate-2016-study

On a separate note, Subaru interior ergonomics and interior quality are awful. A point that is overlooked buy buyers who have lots of "love".

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by thebmw

On a separate note, Subaru interior ergonomics and interior quality are awful. A point that is overlooked buy buyers who have lots of "love".

That's because love should be unconditional

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I don't think you can just go buy a subaru anyways. I think they only sell them in Colorado and you're required to have a hipster beard and go trout fishing during your lunch break. Or so I've heard.

My nephew has one. He lives in Salt Lake City. And not naive nor liberal. Practical is the word I'd use to describe him. He might be a bit hipster but I've never seen it. LOL

[Conissah]

The Merc and the Porsche are out for me. For the Merc, I just hate Saloon looking SUVs, they make no sense in terms of storage and they just look off to me. The Macan is just meh, they don't excite me, but they sell super well for a reason.

I've been in the Alfa's and man oh man, I fell in love. Both the Giulia and Stelvio are beautiful vehicles, but I see that you said you're worried about reliability. If it's any consolation, I had a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 100k miles and towed with it quite often, no issues whatsoever. I loved that thing, so much in fact that my next vehicle WILL either be an SRT Jeep or an SRT Durango. I have no hesitation to get another one. I think you should consider the SRT Jeeps tbh. They are good inside, albiet not Audi / BMW / Merc levels, but they're also not as expensive. They have a great ACC system, the ZF8 is brilliant, they tow very very well, and do 0-60 in a hair over 4 seconds. Plus that 6.4L V8 sounds wicked.

The new X3's with the S58 are ridiculous in terms of power, and they look SO GOOD. But having never been in one, I just have to base my opinion on the ones I've seen on the road and videos. As for the SQ5, my buddy has one, and I absolutely love that thing too. We put an intake on it, and hearing the supercharger whine when you're hard on the accelerator is awesome. It's the only supercharged SUV in your lineup. The build quality is fantastic, and used ones can be had for quite a steal. It didn't WOW me though in terms of acceleration, it was quick but nothing extremely exciting.

[GenXer]

I've owned a new Alfa-Romeo Guilia Q4 AWD with all the options when it first came out. It was quick even with the 2.0L Turbo. It was beautiful and well put together; excellent paint, good fit and finished but I still wouldn't recommend an Alfa. I paid $54K for it and sold it back to the dealer for $45K in 6 months with only 500 miles on it. The dealer had it for a couple of months and the price went down to $35k.

Stick with the Germans. I think you will be very happy with an X5!

[strohw]

Originally Posted by Conissah

I've been in the Alfa's and man oh man, I fell in love. Both the Giulia and Stelvio are beautiful vehicles, but I see that you said you're worried about reliability. If it's any consolation, I had a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 100k miles and towed with it quite often, no issues whatsoever. I loved that thing, so much in fact that my next vehicle WILL either be an SRT Jeep or an SRT Durango. I have no hesitation to get another one. I think you should consider the SRT Jeeps tbh. They are good inside, albiet not Audi / BMW / Merc levels, but they're also not as expensive. They have a great ACC system, the ZF8 is brilliant, they tow very very well, and do 0-60 in a hair over 4 seconds. Plus that 6.4L V8 sounds wicked.

Jeep SRT with a few options is mid 70k which is more than the ones you listed. Though it is also x5 sized, not the compact size of the others listed.

The Durango SRT starts 6K cheaper than the Jeep but they're being sneaky with that pricing. They pulled out the soft touch plastics and most of the upper end safety tech and put them into packages. Once you option those then they're the same price. On this one you trade a better Jeep package for a 3rd row or 10cuft of storage. I think the color options on the Durango are more fun.