[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Have to disagree, everyone still wants a GT3 which is why they're $30-50k over for a 3 year old used one with miles on it. They just increased the base price by $40k because they know people will pay it for that hard edged sports car.

They could easily put a NA engine in any of the base lineup but they don't because it forces people to go after a GT3 which keeps values up, and of course everyone wants something they can't get.

Prices have gone into the stratosphere though, with a loaded 911 T being upwards of $180k now when a few years ago a loaded 991.2 GTS was $160k and is now closer to $220k. You've got a whole lot of great options when you're getting into that kind of price range. Hopefully Porsche doesn't kill the golden goose by getting too greedy.

Yes people want GT3s. But they make a tiny amount of those compared to regular 911s. My point was more than people buying a new base Carrera, or even a 4S, want something that's less sports car and more status car.

I don't think Porsche will have any issues until there's a major stock market drop. Right now the people buying these cars are high on massive stock market gains, so they don't really care that it's an extra $50k, they just want one now. If the market has a major drop from something, and all that paper wealth gets hit, Porsche could be in for some hurt.

[Alfisti]

Porsche sell you turbo charged because of emissions, if it wasn't for that the entire line up bar the TURBO would be NA. AS sports car with a turbo charged engine loses much of it's point for existing in the first place.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Pauly Wauly

Do you have the 928 on the road, M5Rick?
I remember you were working on it last year, or a couple of years ago.

Not quite, too busy with other things like moving soon. It needs more work removing an old faulty thatcham immobiliser to even start it, then fix the n/w dash lights and finally the reverse gear that doesn't engage. I overhauled the rear brakes with a kit, it had seized callipers.

[anthemavm]

I drive a 24 M2 daily with carbon buckets, and love it. Went to the porsche dealer today and drove a 2021 911s with 1,700 miles. It was beautiful, sexy, and full of pure class.

I drove it on the streets and honestly didn't blow me away on acceleration and handling. I am going to head to another dealer later this week, but honestly think I would keep the M2 and pick up a M3CS for the weekend.

[eliphil]

I loved my 2000 911 but it started to break down in 2012 and I found out the engine was at severe risk of failure. I sold it and found out there was a class action lawsuit against Porsche one of many. Six years later I bought a Z06 M7 ragtop. Its more exciting to drive then a 911 gets from that year and a lot less money

[eliphil]

Originally Posted by eliphil

I loved my 2000 911 but it started to break down in 2012 and I found out the engine was at severe risk of failure. I sold it and found out there was a class action lawsuit against Porsche one of many. Six years later I bought a Z06 M7 ragtop. Its more exciting to drive then a 911 gets from that year and a lot less money

[Davil]

What did you like about the base 911? It’s a well made mass produced car with decent handling and ok power. Sounds like a vacuum cleaner though.

I haven’t driven a G series CS but I’d imagine it is in another league.

I did own an F series M2 CS and that was a way better drive than the base 992 with the benefit of being much more practical if you need that.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by eliphil

I loved my 2000 911 but it started to break down in 2012 and I found out the engine was at severe risk of failure. I sold it and found out there was a class action lawsuit against Porsche one of many. Six years later I bought a Z06 M7 ragtop. Its more exciting to drive then a 911 gets from that year and a lot less money

Pretty much any 911 motor that isn't one of the newer motors or a Metzger has the severe risk of failure. Any non turbo 996 or 997 is suspect for an IMS failure. They say the 997s are "better", but failures still happen. On the plus side, when it does happen it's a great excuse to LS swap it and make more power, reliably.

[W///]

I think a while ago, Porsche was a great mid point between say a BMW M and exotics. Their pricing has increased massively, and I'm at the point where I just think there are more interesting cars for the price (especially if you look on the used market).

My dream car was a Speed Yellow 997.1 GT3, but considering it's something I'd drive once a week or 2, I just don't think that's worth the +$120k entry level.

Personally, I find "useable" cars like the G80CS much more interesting nowadays.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Pretty much any 911 motor that isn't one of the newer motors or a Metzger has the severe risk of failure. Any non turbo 996 or 997 is suspect for an IMS failure. They say the 997s are "better", but failures still happen. On the plus side, when it does happen it's a great excuse to LS swap it and make more power, reliably.

Hang on a sec here. There's no IMS in the 997.2 and the IMS is the least of your issues in the 997.1, particularly the 3.8 engine, the big issue is bore scoring. This is far, far, far less common on the 997.2 but still something to PPI for, it is very easy to spot. On a 997.1 'S' i'd say scoring and failure is more likely than mot at some point. There's a reason why the .2 commands such a premium over the .1.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by W///

I think a while ago, Porsche was a great mid point between say a BMW M and exotics. Their pricing has increased massively, and I'm at the point where I just think there are more interesting cars for the price (especially if you look on the used market).

My dream car was a Speed Yellow 997.1 GT3, but considering it's something I'd drive once a week or 2, I just don't think that's worth the +$120k entry level.

Personally, I find "useable" cars like the G80CS much more interesting nowadays.

Every man has to make that call for himself right. I decided to go down the path of a beater DD, my daily is basically worthless BUT I do not drive much. Then on weekends I have something a bit special, it's not a high spec but killer colour and a great sounding drop top. YOu can make an argument to sell both and daily an all rounder but 90% of the all rounders are turbo charged which suckes the fun out of them.

[TUlinavE]

The 911 Carrera is iconic and offers an unmatched driving feel with its rear-engine dynamics. However, the M3CS gives you more versatility with four doors and a more aggressive edge in performance

[VAcurler]

My F23 is better than my old 996 Cab in every way except for the name. I really want a new 911 Targa but they just keep getting bigger and more expensive.

[anthemavm]

One big advantage to a BMW is I can drive it to work, a P car doesn't look good in my industry.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Hang on a sec here. There's no IMS in the 997.2 and the IMS is the least of your issues in the 997.1, particularly the 3.8 engine, the big issue is bore scoring. This is far, far, far less common on the 997.2 but still something to PPI for, it is very easy to spot. On a 997.1 'S' i'd say scoring and failure is more likely than mot at some point. There's a reason why the .2 commands such a premium over the .1.

Fair.

To be totally honest, the only 997.1 worth buying (for good money) is the turbo IMO. The only 996 worth buying (for good money) is a 997 Turbo IMO. Obviously many disagree with me. But a cheap 996/997.1 with a stick makes sense.

[Alfisti]

The fear is bore scoring, the 996 and 997.1 are rife with it. The sleeper is the .2 base 3.6 engine which I don't think i have ever seen have this issue. It's a big enough issue that I paid for a bore scope with videos and photo when I bought my .2 with only 40K miles.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by anthemavm

I drive a 24 M2 daily with carbon buckets, and love it. Went to the porsche dealer today and drove a 2021 911s with 1,700 miles. It was beautiful, sexy, and full of pure class.

I drove it on the streets and honestly didn't blow me away on acceleration and handling. I am going to head to another dealer later this week, but honestly think I would keep the M2 and pick up a M3CS for the weekend.

An M3CS is way too close to what you already have in the M2. The M2 and M3 chassis is a sports coupe chassis. A 911 and a Cayman are true sportscars, the Cayman more so than most 911s.

When you already have a missile of a car like the M2, don't focus so much on the acceleration but rather the overall experience. I can't speak to how the new turbo Porsches drive, the 997/987 cars are so connected. They have everything you need in terms of creature comforts and quality, but are also pretty raw and intense. They have way more NVH than a 991+ car, but arguably a much better sports car driving experience. It is far more fun to drive a slow car fast than vice versa. Also, it takes a lot of time driving a Porsche sports car to understand and fall into the magic of these cars. I took me a good 3 months. It's now been 2 years, 1 month, and 19 days and I will NEVER part with my Cayman unless it's totaled. In the rare chance the motor blows, I'll just put a built 3.8 in it.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The fear is bore scoring, the 996 and 997.1 are rife with it. The sleeper is the .2 base 3.6 engine which I don't think i have ever seen have this issue. It's a big enough issue that I paid for a bore scope with videos and photo when I bought my .2 with only 40K miles.

It happens in the 3.6s too, but not as prevalent. Sadly, bore scoring happens in the DFI 987.2/997.2 3.4 and 3.8 cars too and it will only get worse over time as these cars age. I don't think it will be as prevalent as the .1 cars, but the failure rate is increasing per the US and European engine builders. It really sucks that Porsche is so utterly terrible with the reliability of their engine blocks. We do have to remember though that most of the cars that have issues have a decent amount of miles and are 15+ years old. Most cars aren't on the road after 10 years. A Porsche you can keep running for damn near ever if you're willing to spend the coin.

[Alfisti]

I was referring to the DFI 3.6, I don't think i have seen anyone report a case of scoring. It has likely happened but numbers must be super low as you don't see it on forums etc.

[baege]

Originally Posted by anthemavm

If you were going to buy a 992 today and had $150,000 what would you buy?

a 718 4.0 manual and pocket the change

I know you tried a 992 and were left unimpressed

I looked at the 992 and test drove a 992 S manual, wanting to scratch that 911 itch

got back in my 718 4.0 manual and was like NAH this is better

try a 718 GTS 4.0 or 718 GT4 manual

I think you might be impressed

[R N M]

Originally Posted by anthemavm

I drive a 24 M2 daily with carbon buckets, and love it. Went to the porsche dealer today and drove a 2021 911s with 1,700 miles. It was beautiful, sexy, and full of pure class.

I drove it on the streets and honestly didn't blow me away on acceleration and handling. I am going to head to another dealer later this week, but honestly think I would keep the M2 and pick up a M3CS for the weekend.

I have F80 M3 and had 991.2 911 T and now 991.1 GT3RS.

The 911 shines in the corners. At low speeds and regular traffic, you will not be impressed. The driving dynamics are on a different level.

Also a 911 has a billion options so one car can feel very different than the next. Try a T or GTS which have most of the sport oriented stuff standard like Sport Chrono, lowered suspension, sport exhaust etc. Also try one with rear wheel steering (RAS), makes huge difference.

The M cars are hard to beat for the $$$.
A base 911 is double the price of M2.

[M3Diaz]

Sold my G82 and bought a 991.2 GTS and I have 0 regrets. I thought I would miss the M4 but I can't say that I do.