[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by 3798j

This will cement the fact....It was Newey and his cars.

Newey can't be the only aero expert around on the planet that can make an F1 car perform at optimum speed and with the heavier cars coming in 2026 AM may be wasting their money as the onus will be more on battery regeneration for speed with aero possibly being a by product on the Frankenstein cars.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

This chat is so salty. Max has won zero races this year, and Lewis has won 1. I thought Max was the best? How is he letting a washed driver who lost to Rosberg (Who beat Schumacher and the rest of the grid) beat him?

Absolutely pathetic showing. FYI Bottas was 2nd place WDC over Max for 3 years. Max stans are just in denial. They are going to claim Max is the best because he picked off a 3rd tier rookie teammate

It's so funny that all of a sudden, sprint wins count for something now??
What about the first 18 of them where Max won 9 (or 50%) - even Bot won one LOL. Ham didnt have a prayer to win any of those either, not even in his MB in 2021 with the fastest car ever seen in F1 that drove on near autopilot (99% car and 1% driver skill). Never heard you mention anything then about how glorious they were to win, but now all of a sudden Ham cheats to win one and it's a big deal. Again, the goal posts just move like the wind with you. The guy with the fastest car in F1 is barely sitting top 10 while the guy with the 4th fastest car is sitting P2. Wonder why?

Remind me, how many races has Ham won since 2022? It has been statistically and talent wise the most competitive landscape ever seen in F1. He has had one of the most competitive cars during that time as well. There have been 67 GPs, and 19 sprint races? What is Ham's win %? Let's then look at Max's? I thin Max with the 3rd fastest car in 2024 won more GPs and sprints than Ham has in the entire 3 years of the regulation cycle so far.

[wizardofOz]

Originally Posted by 3798j

A beautiful shot of Honda's first F1 car, the RA271, next to Red Bull's RB21...with a truly attractive livery (something they're not known for).

It looks like the Haas colour scheme..

[3798j]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Newey can't be the only aero expert around on the planet that can make an F1 car perform at optimum speed and with the heavier cars coming in 2026 AM may be wasting their money as the onus will be more on battery regeneration for speed with aero possibly being a by product on the Frankenstein cars.

I'm certain Newey isn't the only great aerodynamicist in F1...look how dominate the McLaren MCL39 is. What has become obvious to the most casual observer is that Newey's jumping the RBR rotting ship started it's sinking and his replacement hasn't answered the bell.

[3798j]

Originally Posted by wizardofOz

It looks like the Haas colour scheme..

Here's Haas' Sekura livery...

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Artemis

No-one can reasonably dispute that Hamilton has deservedly joined other F1 greats in the Pantheon of F1 history.

The contents of your comment sound as if recorded for a mid December 2021 time capsule.

But it's April 2025 now. 70 races and 16 Sprints since the 2021 Abu Dhabi trauma, have put things into perspective.

Reality-check: from those 86 race events since the 2022 season:

• Hamilton won Silverstone 2024, Spa-Francorchamps 2024 and the China Sprint 2025.
  That makes 3 out of 86 (3.4%). 1 GP pole position (1.4%) (2023 Hungary).
• Verstappen took measure of Hamilton by winning 43 GP races and 10 Sprint events.
  That makes 53 out of 86 (61.6%). 27 GP pole positions (38.6%).

Up to Hamiton to prove Toto Wolff wrong about his infamous "shelf life" quote.

Attachment 3700566

Yes exactly as I mentioned in my previous post. In the most competitive climate ever seen in F1, with the most talent and requiring the most driver skill in these difficult to drive cars since early 2000s, Hamilton has shown he is not that good, not that fast, and not that talented. The downturn, or rather truthfully, the return to norm, coincidentally happened when he lost the fastest car in F1 history - a car that was illegally developed, had secret tire tires, 80-100 more hp than every other car in the field, no budgets, etc. The advantages that car has were material and numerous whereas every car until 2021 was nowhere close to being F1 speed and on top of that, there wasnt any talent until Max and Lec came in (even though they both didnt have cars capable of winning a WDC). The MB was so fast it made mere average drivers like Ham, Ros, and Bot look quite good. The car itself accounted for 99% of what it did - had nearly nothing to do with the driver. It's very easy to win when there isnt competition. Once the competition showed up, Ham's success went down to near embarrassing levels - let's not forget, he didnt actually win in Spa last year. Max won at a higher % clip in a much worse car from 2016-2021. Ham also had to beg Toto not to sign Max because he was afraid of being paired with someone who was MUCH MUCH better than him even at a young age.

[3798j]

^Have we noticed that most of his posts say exactly the same thing (usally word for word )...don't think there was ever a more deserving poster to receive this award....

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Max is going to get destroyed by Yuki. Max is only good against mediocre drivers and rookies.

That's why they didn't hire bottas. They know he would steal wins off Max. People forget that Bottas, prior to Mercedes, was 4th in the WDC ahead of some Ferrari legends/

Mate . You must be kidding ...

Valtteri Bottas was LEW's lap dog for 5 years (!)

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

It's so funny that all of a sudden, sprint wins count for something now??
What about the first 18 of them where Max won 9 (or 50%) - even Bot won one LOL. Ham didnt have a prayer to win any of those either, not even in his MB in 2021 with the fastest car ever seen in F1 that drove on near autopilot (99% car and 1% driver skill). Never heard you mention anything then about how glorious they were to win, but now all of a sudden Ham cheats to win one and it's a big deal. Again, the goal posts just move like the wind with you. The guy with the fastest car in F1 is barely sitting top 10 while the guy with the 4th fastest car is sitting P2. Wonder why?
Remind me, how many races has Ham won since 2022? It has been statistically and talent wise the most competitive landscape ever seen in F1. He has had one of the most competitive cars during that time as well. There have been 67 GPs, and 19 sprint races? What is Ham's win %? Let's then look at Max's? I think Max with the 3rd fastest car in 2024 won more GPs and sprints than Ham has in the entire 3 years of the regulation cycle so far.

2021 - 2025:

• Sprint event victories:
  HAM: 1 out of 19 (5.3%) | VER: 11 out of 19 (57.9%).
• Grand Prix Pole Positions:
  HAM: 6 out of 92 (6.5%) | VER: 37 out of 92 (40.2%).
• Grand Prix victories:
  HAM: 10 out of 92 (10.9%) | VER: 53 out of 92 (57.6%);
• World Drivers' Championship:
  HAM: 0 out of 4 (0%) | VER: 4 out of 4 (100%).

2025:

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by 3798j

I'm certain Newey isn't the only great aerodynamicist in F1...look how dominate the McLaren MCL39 is. What has become obvious to the most casual observer is that Newey's jumping the RBR rotting ship started it's sinking and his replacement hasn't answered the bell.

McLaren is very dominant in cheating (!)

[3798j]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

McLaren is very dominant in cheating (!)

Great photo! The MCL39 rules...by following the rules and passing the tests.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Great photo! The MCL39 rules...by following the rules and passing the tests.

Right . And that's why ...

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate . You must be kidding ...

Valtteri Bottas was LEW's lap dog for 5 years (!)

Bottas himself admitted he was inferior to Lewis, team orders have nothing to do with it.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Artemis

2021 - 2025:

• Sprint event victories:
  HAM: 1 out of 19 (5.3%) | VER: 11 out of 19 (57.9%).
• Grand Prix Pole Positions:
  HAM: 6 out of 92 (6.5%) | VER: 37 out of 92 (40.2%).
• Grand Prix victories:
  HAM: 10 out of 92 (10.9%) | VER: 53 out of 92 (57.6%);
• World Drivers' Championship:
  HAM: 0 out of 4 (0%) | VER: 4 out of 4 (100%).

2025:
Attachment 3700688

Why are we starting at 2021? Why not 2015?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 3798j

^Have we noticed that most of his posts say exactly the same thing (usally word for word )...don't think there was ever a more deserving poster to receive this award....

Attachment 3700655

Because it's all he has. So far, washed Lewis has more poles and wins than Max does.
Is Max overrated and washed?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate . You must be kidding ...

Valtteri Bottas was LEW's lap dog for 5 years (!)

They were good times for LEW back in those olden times, F1 is cruel as already said and as he couldn't get a point with Kick, VAL was relegated to tester returning to Merc. Was wondering how he would cope with the RB21 if the opportunity arose.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by 3798j

A beautiful shot of Honda's first F1 car, the RA271, next to Red Bull's RB21...with a truly attractive livery (something they're not known for).

I’m only slightly nervous they have posted it on April 1st lol

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

So far, washed Lewis has more poles and wins than Max does.
Is Max overrated and washed?

You're ignoring a relevant aspect, AmuroRay.

As of today:

• Verstappen: Sep 30, 1997 to today = 10,046 days (>27.5 years).
• Hamilton: Jan 7, 1985 to today = 14,695 days (>40 years)

Matching age:

• date when Hamilton was Verstappen's current age (today): July 9, 2012 (Jan 7, 1985 + 10,045 days);
• date when Verstappen will be Hamilton's current age (today): Dec 23, 2037 (Sep 30, 1997 + 14,694 days).

So Verstappen still has at least over 12.5 years (4,649 days) ahead of him to beat Hamilton's GP victories and pole position records. But Verstappen has repeatedly told that he's not interested by records statistics and that he doesn't plan to be still around in F1 in his mid 30s (he also wants to race in other categories).

Now let's have a look:

• Hamilton's GP victories at exactly the same age as Verstappen today (July 9, 2012 = 10,046 days): 18 wins.
• Verstappen's GP victories till today (Apr 1, 2025 = 10,046 days): 63 wins.
• Hamilton's GP pole positions at exactly the same age as Verstappen today (July 9, 2012 = 10,046 days): 21 pole positions.
• Verstappen's GP pole positions till today (Apr 1, 2025 = 10,046 days): 40 pole positions.
• not taking into account Sprint events (qualies and race), because these only exist since 2021 (Hamilton: 1 Sprint victory | Verstappen: 11 Sprint victories);
• and of course also not taking into account sim racing.

Conclusion: let's agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen are among the best F1 drivers ever. If you consider Hamilton better than Verstappen: I respect that opinion.

We could alternatively redo the math using the first F1 GP date as start date instead of the birthdate (>22 years for Hamilton [2007] versus >17 years for Verstappen [2015]).

Hamilton (>27.5 years): 18 GP victories


Vertstappen (>27.5 years): 63 GP victories


Hamilton (>27.5 years): 21 pole positions


Verstappen (>27.5 years): 40 pole positions

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Artemis

You're ignoring a relevant aspect, AmuroRay.

As of today:

• Verstappen: Sep 30, 1997 to today = 10,046 days (>27.5 years).
• Hamilton: Jan 7, 1985 to today = 14,695 days (>40 years)

Matching age:

• date when Hamilton was Verstappen's current age (today): July 9, 2012 (Jan 7, 1985 + 10,045 days);
• date when Verstappen will be Hamilton's current age (today): Dec 23, 2037 (Sep 30, 1997 + 14,694 days).

So Verstappen still has at least over 12.5 years (4,649 days) ahead of him to beat Hamilton's GP victories and pole position records. But Verstappen has repeatedly told that he's not interested by records statistics and that he doesn't plan to be still around in F1 in his mid 30s (he also wants to race in other categories).

Now let's have a look:

• Hamilton's GP victories at exactly the same age as Verstappen today (July 9, 2012 = 10,046 days): 18 wins.
• Verstappen's GP victories till today (Apr 1, 2025 = 10,046 days): 63 wins.
• Hamilton's GP pole positions at exactly the same age as Verstappen today (July 9, 2012 = 10,046 days): 21 pole positions.
• Verstappen's GP pole positions till today (Apr 1, 2025 = 10,046 days): 40 pole positions.
• not taking into account Sprint events (qualies and race), because these only exist since 2021 (Hamilton: 1 Sprint victory | Verstappen: 11 Sprint victories);
• and of course also not taking into account sim racing.

Conclusion: let's agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen are among the best F1 drivers ever. If you consider Hamilton better than Verstappen: I respect that opinion.

We could alternatively redo the math using the first F1 GP date as start date instead of the birthdate (>22 years for Hamilton [2007] versus >17 years for Verstappen [2015]).

Hamilton (>27.5 years): 18 GP victories
Attachment 3700846

Vertstappen (>27.5 years): 63 GP victories
Attachment 3700832

Hamilton (>27.5 years): 21 pole positions
Attachment 3700831

Verstappen (>27.5 years): 40 pole positions
Attachment 3700830

Nice graphics and all, but That's still meaningless. Lewis didn't enter in F1 in 2021 - he's been around since 2007. But I didn't ask about their ages, I don't personally care when they joined. A W isn't worth more or less depending on how old a person is.

So once more, I'll reiterate that Lewis has more wins, poles, and more recent wins and poles than Max does. It the most absolute and basic sense, Max is far behind Lewis in accomplishments snd talent

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Newey can't be the only aero expert around on the planet that can make an F1 car perform at optimum speed and with the heavier cars coming in 2026 AM may be wasting their money as the onus will be more on battery regeneration for speed with aero possibly being a by product on the Frankenstein cars.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Looks good but the logo on the nose is off center.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Nice graphics and all, but That's still meaningless. Lewis didn't enter in F1 in 2021 - he's been around since 2007. But I didn't ask about their ages, I don't personally care when they joined. A W isn't worth more or less depending on how old a person is.

So once more, I'll reiterate that Lewis has more wins, poles, and more recent wins and poles than Max does. It the most absolute and basic sense, Max is far behind Lewis in accomplishments snd talent

A 12.5 years age gap between two F1 drivers, is relevant. Hamilton had already competed 8 years in F1 when Verstappen entered F1 as a rookie. More experience. And also in F1, there's equally a different maturity level between ages 17 and 22.

F1 career-wise, alike Alonso, Hamilton is currently in 'wintertime'. Michael Schumacher achieved a last GP victory in October 2006 (Chinese GP). His final fortysomething seasons (2010, 2011 and 2012) may have been interesting for his bank account and merchandise, but on track he didn't leave a lasting impression anymore. Hopefully Hamilton still manages to win races this year - it would make the WDC title fight tighter than when Piastri and Norris return home with too many 25 GP points.

Verstappen still has a big part of the 'summer', as well as 'autumn' and 'winter' ahead of him: possibilities to score more F1 pole positions and race wins.

As McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes seem to have better performing F1 cars than RBR right now, hopes are low for Verstappen for getting multiple podiums this season - his RB21 ain't sufficiently competitive. But once inside a Mercedes in 2026, getting yet another WDC title will be a way more realistic scenario than this season.