[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by Rocket455

OP: looks like whatever car you get your folks next, they will keep it for a long time. Based on that alone, my vote goes to Lexus NX/RX. I'd personally avoid a hybrid (fewer components to go bad in the long-term compared to standard ICE setup). Out of all the options presented, the Lexus dealership experience will be the most pleasing, Lexus has renowned reliability, and it'll still hold its value better by a mile.

Can't disagree with any of this

[wtwo3]

The other issue with the NX is that it seems discounts are hard to come by. So at least purchase price wise it's becoming significantly more expensive than an X1 with less features. I get maintenance and long term ownership might be lower, but it'll be a hard pill to swallow if we have to purchase a comparatively equipped NX for nearly $10k more than a nearly loaded X1 (either that or compromise on features/trim).

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

What sort of a discount were you able to get on the mazda? I was able to score a 10% off deal on the x1 with little haggling.

FWIW, I bought a lower trim CX-30 a few weeks ago for my daughter to drive at college. I got 11.5% off, with no haggling and was told he had more room on the higher trim levels.

I've owned only BMWs (E36, E46, E82, F87, G01) and Mazdas (CX-9, CX-5, 6, Turbo 3, CX-30) for a number of years now.

[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The other issue with the NX is that it seems discounts are hard to come by. So at least purchase price wise it's becoming significantly more expensive than an X1 with less features. I get maintenance and long term ownership might be lower, but it'll be a hard pill to swallow if we have to purchase a comparatively equipped NX for nearly $10k more than a nearly loaded X1 (either that or compromise on features/trim).

Longevity would be the thing to factor in here.

If they will keep it for a long time the NX would be much less expensive.

Personally as someone who owned and E84 X1, I simply don't care for the later X1s. Real BMWs don't have transverse mounted FWD biased architectures

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by CLTMDA

I also think the Mazdas are a great value for what you get. They do not have a high-end option in the same vein as Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, so they tend to put more "extras" into the car.

I parked next to a CX-50 this past weekend, great looking little car, but I agree it appears lower and more like a wagon, not too bad if that is what you are looking for. My 78 yr old father-in-law can afford whatever car (or anything else for that matter) he wants, but the CX-5 really fit what he wanted. He isn't a tech guy, but doesn't need to be for this car. He is also a bigger guy and getting into and out of this car is very easy for him. Mazda is definitely worth a visit for consideration.

That sort of raised wagon height, like the original X1, is key for older folks. Some struggle to go low and struggle to step up.

[BlkGS]

My neighbors (in their 90s) have a Mazda. They seem to like it. They don't drive much so reliability is an unknown for them, but Mazda reliability is historically not a strong point. Resale is also, very much not a strong point for Mazda.

The auto journalists.love them (probably have the best kickbacks and perks of the automakers), but my buddy had a CX90 as a rental and he said it was the worst car he ever drove. The steering was dangerously light, painfully vague, and just a total garbage can to drive. This from a guy who drives his wife's RAV4 hybrid a lot and says it's fine.

Personally, I'd get a last gen RX350 with the V6 and drove that forever without having to do any repairs.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

My neighbors (in their 90s) have a Mazda. They seem to like it. They don't drive much so reliability is an unknown for them, but Mazda reliability is historically not a strong point. Resale is also, very much not a strong point for Mazda.

The auto journalists.love them (probably have the best kickbacks and perks of the automakers), but my buddy had a CX90 as a rental and he said it was the worst car he ever drove. The steering was dangerously light, painfully vague, and just a total garbage can to drive. This from a guy who drives his wife's RAV4 hybrid a lot and says it's fine.

Personally, I'd get a last gen RX350 with the V6 and drove that forever without having to do any repairs.

Ive rented a cx-90 and it was quite nice in all areas. I have a cx-30 right now (rental) and the check engine light is on and seat fore-after adjust seems dead, no idea why, but seem to drive fine. There are some ergonomic things I dont quite like, but it also drives fine. I do see where they spent less and more money on it. Id say for 90% of the population the tradeoffs are worth it.


I liked the cx-90. That said, something like a rav4 offers all the important convenience options these days. I think a lot of this has filtered down to the lower levels where “luxury” vehicles now have opulent options that just aren’t going to be used by 99% of those driving them.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

Ive rented a cx-90 and it was quite nice in all areas. I have a cx-30 right now (rental) and the check engine light is on and seat fore-after adjust seems dead, no idea why, but seem to drive fine. There are some ergonomic things I dont quite like, but it also drives fine. I do see where they spent less and more money on it. Id say for 90% of the population the tradeoffs are worth it.


I liked the cx-90. That said, something like a rav4 offers all the important convenience options these days. I think a lot of this has filtered down to the lower levels where “luxury” vehicles now have opulent options that just aren’t going to be used by 99% of those driving them.

Yeah, I dunno. All the car mags rave about how great the CX90 is and how it drives so sporty and the steering is great and all that... He literally hated it. Like I might drive the car an hour back to the rental place to get a different car hated it. I dunno if he just had a POS rental, or maybe the 4 cylinder version sucks, or what. But he despised it.

They make an insane used value though, like 50% off after a year. Shame the transmission is tuned poorly and they're slow for their power and they didn't put the PHEV on the I6. Feels like they have a lot of good ingredients but just didn't get the bake right.

[tturedraider]

Purely my opinions. I would be out on the CX-50, because it looks like an all-road and I don’t like any kind of cladding and especially black cladding. Plus that interior and dashboard is a major turn off for me. I also don’t like black trim at all, but I would want the turbo motor, so for me it would have to be the CX-5 Signature. The nice thing here is you won’t have the German nickel and diming on the options, because except for a couple of accessories everything is standard.

I think maybe a big question could be how much do your folks care about the driving experience. I’m going to guess the BMW driving dynamics are probably not that important to them.


Just built an X1. For me the total MSRP comes to $50,650. I think the Mazda wins for me. It has a much better price and a somewhat more powerful motor and it has a real dashboard with physical controls. And it looks REALLY nice!!

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Purely my opinions. I would be out on the CX-50, because it looks like an all-road and I don’t like any kind of cladding and especially black cladding. Plus that interior and dashboard is a major turn off for me. I also don’t like black trim at all, but I would want the turbo motor, so for me it would have to be the CX-5 Signature. The nice thing here is you won’t have the German nickel and diming on the options, because except for a couple of accessories everything is standard.

I think maybe a big question could be how much do your folks care about the driving experience. I’m going to guess the BMW driving dynamics are probably not that important to them.


Just built an X1. For me the total MSRP comes to $50,650. I think the Mazda wins for me. It has a much better price and a somewhat more powerful motor and it has a real dashboard with physical controls. And it looks REALLY nice!!

The cx-5 might have more power on paper, but the x1 crushes it in real world acceleration. You know, just bmw things.

I'll have to check out a loaded cx5 to see how they like it. Pricing will come down to what sort of discounts mazda dealers are willing to give. I already have a 10% off deal on the x1 which brings its price in line with a loaded cx5 signature.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Purely my opinions. I would be out on the CX-50, because it looks like an all-road and I don’t like any kind of cladding and especially black cladding. Plus that interior and dashboard is a major turn off for me. I also don’t like black trim at all, but I would want the turbo motor, so for me it would have to be the CX-5 Signature. The nice thing here is you won’t have the German nickel and diming on the options, because except for a couple of accessories everything is standard.

I think maybe a big question could be how much do your folks care about the driving experience. I’m going to guess the BMW driving dynamics are probably not that important to them.


Just built an X1. For me the total MSRP comes to $50,650. I think the Mazda wins for me. It has a much better price and a somewhat more powerful motor and it has a real dashboard with physical controls. And it looks REALLY nice!!

At $50k your X1 should have been an M35I. The Mazda should not have had more power than that, lol.

[chassis]

Good thread and comments.

Why so little mention of CR-V and RAV4 in this thread? Dimensionally they are comparable to CX-5, CX-50 and X1. Prices are comparable.

Is it styling/cosmetics? Or something else?

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by chassis

Good thread and comments.

Why so little mention of CR-V and RAV4 in this thread? Dimensionally they are comparable to CX-5, CX-50 and X1. Prices are comparable.

Is it styling/cosmetics? Or something else?

He said they are looking to get into a premium brand. Mazda was brought up as it's one of the only brands that's a little more premium in its offerings. The RAV4 and CRV are great vehicles, but premium or even near premium they are not.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by chassis

Good thread and comments.

Why so little mention of CR-V and RAV4 in this thread? Dimensionally they are comparable to CX-5, CX-50 and X1. Prices are comparable.

Is it styling/cosmetics? Or something else?

Those would probably be the best options for them. But they've been driving toyotas/entry level cars their entire life. If i truly pushed them towards another rav4 I'm sure they'd agree, but they've expressed interest in getting into something more premium.

This has been their car history:

1988 - moved to the US and purchased a 1976 chevy impala
1994 - purchased a 1989 nissan sentra to replace the impala
1998 - purchased a 98 corolla to replace the sentra
2000 - purchased a 00 dodge caravan as a 2nd vehicle
2006 - leased an 06 mazda 6 to replace the corolla
2009 - purchased a 10 rav4 - back down to one car
2014 - purchased a 14 rav4 - their previous one began exhibiting some weird transmission issues
2020 - purchased an 02 lexus sc430 as a 2nd car (my dad's super delayed midlife crisis car - i jokingly refer to as his end of life crisis car)

Of all the cars he's ever had, he has liked his SC430 the best. He finds it to be "sporty" and fun to drive. But it's not easy for them to get in and out of. The car that he's liked the least (and I don't know why and can't get him to pinpoint the reason) was the mazda 6. So while the cx5/cx50 might be great options, it'll be an uphill battle to get him to agree to try one out. Regardless, I'm committed to getting him to try out an NX, a CX5, and the X1.

[chassis]

Makes sense. Curious that Mazda has a perceived premium image when pricing is similar to RAV4 and CR-V. Toyota and Honda must carry more brand capital/value, better reliability, or…?

[Mavus]

x1/2 not worth their price for rebaged mini … maybe only as pre owned

we have cx-5 carbon turbo for kid and you would not believe how well it drives while it carves corners and absorbs bumps. they have done an amazing job of finding the right balance. steering is excellent and sporty

easy to park and switchgear and interior layout is like bmw 10y ago

cruising at 75mph is very smooth

also 6sp auto and not shit cvt does a good job and has manual shifting option

[CLTMDA]

After going car shopping with my Father-in-law, he thought the Mazda just "felt nicer" and he liked the red color. He is not a car guy, by any stretch, and the CX-5 is the first car I have ever heard him say he loves. The CX-5 does not have the Turbo, but he doesn't need it either and has never even mentioned a lack of power.

My son has a Mazda 3 and his wife drives the CX30. The 3 is actually nicer than the 30, but the CX-5 is much nicer than either.

[Alfisti]

Ergonomics need to be considered, I suspect they will prefer hard controls not touch screen everything no?

The X1 seems to be hitting the mark pricing wise, it is hard to pay 10k up front for the Lexus.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The other issue with the NX is that it seems discounts are hard to come by.

Why does that matter?
Cars that are hard to sell come loaded with discounts to move them. Cars in demand do not.

Why focus on discounts indicative of vehicles with problematic demand (and other issues)?

Originally Posted by wtwo3

So at least purchase price wise it's becoming significantly more expensive than an X1 with less features. I get maintenance and long term ownership might be lower,

Yep.
That, and resale value, is what matters in the long term.

Originally Posted by wtwo3

but it'll be a hard pill to swallow if we have to purchase a comparatively equipped NX for nearly $10k more than a nearly loaded X1 (either that or compromise on features/trim).

Why bother with comparing trims?
X1 is loaded with what?
Compromise on what?

Anything that you parents actually need, or just fluff features that BMW is infamous for on lower trims?

a

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by chassis

Good thread and comments.

Why so little mention of CR-V and RAV4 in this thread? Dimensionally they are comparable to CX-5, CX-50 and X1. Prices are comparable.

Is it styling/cosmetics? Or something else?

Because they feel less substantial, materials wise. The RAV4, like many Toyota products, is over-styled, and tries too hard to be mad looking. The new CRV has nice styling, but that CVT sucks! The RAV4 and CRV also have less driver connection than the Mazda products and feel very appliance like. The Mazdas are more sporty, organic, refined, etc. They're a nice middle ground between standard vehicles and a BMW.

2015+ Mazdas are just as reliable as any Toyota and more reliable than a Honda. Honda/Acura has had a pretty bad stretch for a while, reliability wise. They've improved a lot though.

Mazda gets less attention because it's a far smaller brand and often gets overlooked as most non-car people hone in on the major brands.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by chassis

Makes sense. Curious that Mazda has a perceived premium image when pricing is similar to RAV4 and CR-V. Toyota and Honda must carry more brand capital/value, better reliability, or…?

Just sit in one (or drive one) and you will see that it has more premium vibes (not quite premium though, but close). Interior materials, weight of doors, more Euro driving feel, etc. That's their play though against the Toyota and Honda's of the world. They can't price themselves outside of this competition, because like you said, Toyota and Honda have the segment smashed when it comes to value, reliability, resale, etc.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Why does that matter?
Cars that are hard to sell come loaded with discounts to move them. Cars in demand do not.

Why focus on discounts indicative of vehicles with problematic demand (and other issues)?



Yep.
That, and resale value, is what matters in the long term.



Why bother with comparing trims?
X1 is loaded with what?
Compromise on what?

Anything that you parents actually need, or just fluff features that BMW is infamous for on lower trims?

a

My parents have done what they "need" for the past 40 years that they've been in this country. They're empty nesters and have paid off their mortgage, so now they express a desire to finally have something nice beyond just "need". It's really as simple as that.

I've driven the NX as well as the new X1, and the X1 far exceeds the NX in every single category, except potential long term costs/maintenance. That's not to say the NX isn't a good option, it's a solid car and I'm including it because ultimately it's up to them to decide what they like.

The dark horse here is the CX-5. I haven't driven the latest iteration of it, so I'm not as familiar. So that should be an interesting one to evaluate when we head to the dealers on Friday.