[fe7565]

Not F30 specific, so posted here.

I know the "what oil do you recommend" topic has been beaten to death and ashes scattered several times. But now at least three major oil companies (possibly others) have readily available BMW approved oil at the same time.


So two things:

LL04 vs LL-01? I know, both are fine, but based on comments by Bimmerworld a while back (see on bottom) the LL-04 was not certified to be used in the USA until a few years ago. It is primarily a diesel car oil, but was only certified for the European market. But now BMW certified it in the US too and is also certified for gasoline engines. And it has some advantages compared to the older LL-01 spec oil for 4cyl turbos (says Bimmerworld).

US availability concurrently by major brands: how come suddenly Mobil One, Valvoline, and Castrol (possibly others) all have products on the shelves with the LL-04 and LL-01 label? Been using Mobil One 7-8 years ago as the only BMW spec oil available, then Castrol LL-01 A3/B4 for the last 2-3 years, now Mobil One is back with LL-04 ACEA C3 and LL-01, and so is Valvoline with LL-04 (maybe others?).

https://shop.valvolineglobal.com/pro...w-30?Size=5+QT

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/1222098962

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/492328178

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-E...saAoLQEALw_wcB





I may have not been very observant in the past, but BMW approved specs oil rating labels rotated from oil company to oil company's product label every year or so. So Mobil had theirs labeled as such for a couple of years, then Castrol for a while, then another. Based on comments by others, these oils were still BMW-approved even if no labels were saying it so on the bottle. Just that the oil companies supposed to have BMW certify their oil for that label...and some decided not to so. So I kept switching every so often to another brand.


LL04 vs LL-01:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

"LL-01 & LL-01 FE (2001 and 2018). API SJ/SL. ACEA A3/B3. SAE 0W30, 5W30, 5W40, 10W60. The first revision with detergents and additives brought in to work with the ridiculous 15,000 mile oil change interval that BMW promoted at the time. However, once cars and engines were out of warranty and mileage accumulated the nasty effects of extended oil changes were realized (i.e. oil sludge). This was also the start of the decline of ZDDP levels with more additives brought in to take its place. LL-01 is compatible with engines approved for LL-98. LL-01 is still coveted as the best of the "old" oil, and the most compatible with sulfur levels of US fuel. Revised standards were applied in 2018 so that more modern engines could meet the LL-01 rating.

LL-04 (2005). API SM/SN. ACEA C3 (similar to A3). SAE 5W30, 5W40. The LL-04 oils have been greatly misunderstood in the past but this is now in greater demand. Most LL-04 oils are intended for Diesels, although it was also approved for gas engines in Europe and other world markets. BMW never certified LL-04 for the US (see next paragraph). Diesel oil has long been valued by engine builders and tuners because of its higher levels of ZDDP content. LL-04 also has a lower SAPS value which is good news for direct-injection engines (all BMW turbo engines since 2007). You won't find Genuine BMW LL-04 sold here but Red Line Euro-Series oil and Pentosin SP III are produced around this spec.

BMW never certified LL-04 for the US market because a) there weren't many Diesels for sale here, b) it was incompatible with the high amounts of sulfur and Ethanol in US gasoline. However, since 2014 our gasoline more closely matches European sulfur levels and since 2017 it's been lower than the past European levels. Oil analysis can give you more insight how your local fuel is interacting with the oil. LL-04 and LL-01 are interchangeable/compatible but LL-04 is preferred for BMW turbo engines for its higher ZDDP and low SAPS. Food for thought: the official BMW Motorsport oil recommendation for the M4 GT4 race car is a LL-04 spec oil. Our race team has used the Red Line Euro Series 5W40.
"

[RockCrusher]

Re: "The first revision with detergents and additives brought in to work with the ridiculous 15,000 mile oil change interval that BMW promoted at the time."

Found this today.

Comments about extended oil change intervals starts at 4:00.

[Brandoch]

Yay another Oil thread.
I guess every second thread on every forum is not enough.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

Yay another Oil thread.
I guess every second thread on every forum is not enough.

Do you know the answer, if LL-04 which is primarily a diesel oil is now the new LL-01?

Or the European specification diesel oil is different from the US specification diesel oil? Therefore ok for gas engines. After all, BMW approved it for US vehicles, gas and diesel, it seems

[ShocknAwe]

Just change your oil every 3-5k miles and it doesn't matter.

[fe7565]

I reached out to Lake Speed Jr, “The Motor Oil Nerd” in the video, and he said BMW designed the LL–04 specifically for diesel and gasoline engine US specifications. So it’s absolutely ok.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Just change your oil every 3-5k miles and it doesn't matter.

That's true, but the oil you put in your engine...matters. Also, additives (if any) mixed in with the specified oil may change the chemistry of the oil, which may or may not cause harm. I guess using the specified oil vs the "wrong" oil for maximum 3K miles may not cause grave damage (as far as viscosity breakdown), but if you are using that "wrong" oil for the next 100k miles (even if replacing it every 3k miles), or mixing the specified engine oil with unspecified additives...will likely lead to engine damage/performance loss.

For example: Person A and Person B with the same engine both mix the same oil additives (like SeaFoam, etc) with their engine oil (Engine Oil A and Engine Oil B), may experience two completely contrasting results. The oil chemistry (base oil + additives) must be matched to the specified engine parameters.

If you ignore specifications (i.e. oil chemistry) by using the wrong oil or using additives that modify the specifications, you will get a range of results. A range, which can be very positive or very negative...or anywhere between. So you are taking a chance, unless you are able to determine (via oil analysis, etc) if the engine oil or engine oil + additives mix you are using has no or positive effects. I think having your oil analyzed and then interpreted/understood at regular intervals through 100K miles is not realistic for most folks.

So probably better to stay with the specs...(at least for me) since I believe that BMW's German engineers collectively are much smarter and have much better tools at their disposal than me.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by fe7565

LL04 vs LL-01

On this part, it'd be interesting to actually know the difference. Just for curiosity.

If the LL-04 is supposedly for low sulfur fuels, what is different in it? More of something, less of something, a combination of both? I think you'd have to find the exact formulations used to answer this, and doubt that you will.

Also keep in mind, devil's advocate, even if you are able to determine the difference there's still no guarantee that one is "better" than the other, if that's the hope. They might just simply be different but equivalent.

Have to get past the marketing speak and get actual details, and further determine how those details make a difference. Anything else is a pointless guess.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by fe7565

That's true, but the oil you put in your engine...matters.

Use a BMW approved oil at the correct weight and viscosity and change it frequently.