[jamesinaz]

OK last time I went to the BMW dealer for an oil change they tried to upsell me the need for brake fluid clean and change and 4 wheel alignment. I passed on both with a car at 28K miles and we don't drive it hard. Oh they wanted $1100 to do both.

I see some service intervals define brake fluid service as an interval thing. Seriously? I mean I've owned cars for over 50 years and never was this a thing. Is this just a thing for dealers to make money? Or have brakes and fluids changed so much I'm out of the loop?

My 2021 X5 40i is about to reach 30K and wondering what if any REAL service requirements I should consider with the next service. Note neither of us races the car and it spends most of it's time in a garage in Arizona.

[louielouie]

Brake fluid is time based more than it is mileage based. Over time, it'll absorb moisture and become less effective. Sooner with harder driving.

I DIY mine every year because of FCP's lifetime warranty.

[jamesinaz]

Thanks. I am baffled that this is a new thing? Or did we just not know before?

[KevinC]

100% time based and it’s because brake fluid absorbs moisture over time. Interval is usually 2-3 years depending on manufacturer.

[jamesinaz]

OK looks like next service includes a brake fluid service. Betting it costs a lot less than $500 the dealer quoted me.

[louielouie]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Thanks. I am baffled that this is a new thing? Or did we just not know before?

This has been a thing for at least the 2 decades I've been driving

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Thanks. I am baffled that this is a new thing? Or did we just not know before?

i guess you just didn't know because it's been a thing forever. Brake fluid aboarbs water and lowers it's boiling point. Boiling brake fluid makes for a very bad day. Water in the fluid also contributed to a squishy brake pedal.

It's like an hour job if you've got a brake bleeder. Some cars you can use the abs pump via a scan tool to do it so you get the abs unit fresh fluids too.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

OK last time I went to the BMW dealer for an oil change they tried to upsell me the need for brake fluid clean and change and 4 wheel alignment. I passed on both with a car at 28K miles and we don't drive it hard. Oh they wanted $1100 to do both.

$1.1K seams like a stretch, but the need for periodic brake fluid change is real.
Alignment should only be considered if you are observing an uneven tire wear, or had done a Dukes of Hazard landing lately, or upgraded your suspension altogether.

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Thanks. I am baffled that this is a new thing? Or did we just not know before?

Not a new thing.
Brake flulid is part of regular maintenance for any car guy. In fact, it's a required step in pre-DE inspection form (brake fluid has to be no more than 6-9 months old)!
For street cars, flushing brake fluid every 2-4 years is the norm.

Looks like you may have been neglecting that part for years!

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

OK looks like next service includes a brake fluid service. Betting it costs a lot less than $500 the dealer quoted me.

With a lift, it's ~1 hour job + $50 in parts.
Very easy to DIY if you have the right tools or want to maintain more than one car in your garage.

HTH,
a

[jamesinaz]

Well, I will be damned. Clearly I have been neglecting this forever as I've never done it and been driving since the early 70s.

Guess that's why I asked here. To see if the dealer was asking to change the blinker fluid or something. Guess it's legit but that price of $500 to do the job is off the charts.

I am past age of DIY so I'll schedule a full service with a non-dealer BMW specialist to get that and a 30K done.

Thanks

[Mech Spec]

A well bled brake fluid flush and refil takes some time even with a power bleeder. The dealer is slightly overestimating the time and then charging dealer shop rates. Just dont expect it to be the price of an oil change.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Well, I will be damned. Clearly I have been neglecting this forever as I've never done it and been driving since the early 70s.

Guess that's why I asked here. To see if the dealer was asking to change the blinker fluid or something. Guess it's legit but that price of $500 to do the job is off the charts.

I am past age of DIY so I'll schedule a full service with a non-dealer BMW specialist to get that and a 30K done.

Thanks

You are not off base. I had never heard of it before I got a BMW. I’ve been driving since 1977. I drove one of my 3ers for a number of years past the recommended interval and never had any problem at all. I recently got a moisture tester. If the moisture content is low the interval can be extended. It should cost around $200. Check out BMW Value Service.

[jamesinaz]

Thanks for the support. Good to know I'm not the only one. LOL

When the car hits 30K I'll do the scheduled mainenance but not at a dealer. Well, I'll give them a chance to quote me a price near what a german car specialist shop in Scottsdale would charge and if they do yeah free car wash and coffee while I wait. But that $1100 for brake fluid and wheel alignment. Whew.

And the wheel alignment has me baffled. I do not think the car has bounced off a curb or been in flight and the tires at that time were almost new. And the car tracks. Heck did a road trip to Utah and at 100 all is smooth. Allegedly.

[tturedraider]

If the car tracks straight and you don’t feel any pulling then you absolutely do not need an alignment. None of my six 3ers have ever required an alignment.

[chowser51]

i do my own with a motive brake bleeder kit. did it on my f33 and f39.
now that i got rid of my bmws, i wonder if i can get an adapter for different cars?

[BWBike]

Add me to the list of owners who don’t change their brake fluid.

I never had a BMW before, but my two current cars are over 10 years old and the original brake fluid. The braking performance has not diminished.

With that stated, I’m thinking I will change the brake fluid after hearing these comments.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BWBike

Add me to the list of owners who don’t change their brake fluid.

I never had a BMW before, but my two current cars are over 10 years old and the original brake fluid. The braking performance has not diminished.

With that stated, I’m thinking I will change the brake fluid after hearing these comments.

It absolutely has degraded, you just haven't gotten to the point where you'd notice. If you were to take it on a track or a mountain road you'd absolutely notice it right after your pedal went to the floor and you didn't stop (ask me how I know).

All that said, I would imagine that most people never change their brake fluid unless a shop requires it as part of a brake pad and rotor job. I usually do a fluid flush when I do brakes on my cars for regular old street cars. Track cars get a fluid flush before every event.

[KevinC]

Speaking of the wheel alignment suggestion - WHY? Did they put it on the rack and verify it's out of spec? Highly unlikely. Uneven tire wear? If so they should have pointed it out to you. Or is the old "well you need an alignment because you haven't had one" or some such BS? Which dealership was this btw - BMW North Scottsdale? It's bad enough when a dealership (or indy shop for that matter) recommends stuff that isn't necessary, but when they do that they want to absolutely rob you for the work - inexcusable and should be called out for it.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by chowser51

i do my own with a motive brake bleeder kit. did it on my f33 and f39.
now that i got rid of my bmws, i wonder if i can get an adapter for different cars?

Yes, absolutely.
Adopters are only needed in so far as different OEM brands use different diameter and thread pitch caps on the brake fluid reservoirs. I have two that have served my full portfolio of changing car brands over the past 20+ years: one for BMWs, and another one for GM/Tesla vehicles. Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus are covered by one adopter or the other (I keep forgetting which one).

I forgot how much I paid for the brake fluid pressure bleeder as I got mine more than 20 years ago. I think it was around $60, and maybe another $15 for the second cap.

Easily one of the best ROI tool investments I've ever made!
Along with a jack, set of jack stands, set of metric sockets, and a torque wrench.

Originally Posted by BWBike

I never had a BMW before, but my two current cars are over 10 years old and the original brake fluid. The braking performance has not diminished.
With that stated, I’m thinking I will change the brake fluid after hearing these comments.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic, and naturally absorbs moisture over time through brake lines and brake reservoir breather hole. That presents two problems:
1). Water in your brake lines tends to settle at the lowest points, and those are calipers and ABS pump. Over time, those start rusting. In case of calipers, they start sticking and will need a rebuild. In case of ABS pump, you will be buying a new one.
2). If you brake hard enough to raise brake fluid temperature level about 100F (calipers heat first, where water is collecting!), water will boil and turn to vapor, which is highly compressible. Then your brake pedal hits the floor without slowing the car down, your pants turn brown, and you revert to impact braking.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I recently got a moisture tester. If the moisture content is low the interval can be extended.

Not exactly.

All brake fluids have a Dry boiling point (BP) and a Wet boiling point (3.7% water contamination) disclosed by the fluid manufacturer. The speed of degradation is very dependent on what fluid you start with, and your ambient humidity.

If you start with a high-quality DOT 4 fluid like Motul RBF600, your Dry BP = 617F and wet BP = 400F.
If you start with cheap-o DOT 3 brake fluid, your Dry BP = 400F and wet BP = 284F.
So even with prolonged service and water contamination, high-end fluid will outperform cheap fluid in terms of resistance to brake fade.
However, the rusting from water contamination will be a problem with both fluids.

How much rust do you want in your calipers? In the ABS pump?
What fluid did you start with?

In the end, it all depends on how much you care about your stopping distances & safety vs. saving a few bucks on maintenance.

HTH,
a

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Yes, absolutely.
Adopters are only needed in so far as different OEM brands use different diameter and thread pitch caps on the brake fluid reservoirs. I have two that have served my full portfolio of changing car brands over the past 20+ years: one for BMWs, and another one for GM/Tesla vehicles. Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus are covered by one adopter or the other (I keep forgetting which one).

I forgot how much I paid for the brake fluid pressure bleeder as I got mine more than 20 years ago. I think it was around $60, and maybe another $15 for the second cap.

Easily one of the best ROI tool investments I've ever made!
Along with a jack, set of jack stands, set of metric sockets, and a torque wrench.



Brake fluid is hygroscopic, and naturally absorbs moisture over time through brake lines and brake reservoir breather hole. That presents two problems:
1). Water in your brake lines tends to settle at the lowest points, and those are calipers and ABS pump. Over time, those start rusting. In case of calipers, they start sticking and will need a rebuild. In case of ABS pump, you will be buying a new one.
2). If you brake hard enough to raise brake fluid temperature level about 100F (calipers heat first, where water is collecting!), water will boil and turn to vapor, which is highly compressible. Then your brake pedal hits the floor without slowing the car down, your pants turn brown, and you revert to impact braking.



Not exactly.

All brake fluids have a Dry boiling point (BP) and a Wet boiling point (3.7% water contamination) disclosed by the fluid manufacturer. The speed of degradation is very dependent on what fluid you start with, and your ambient humidity.

If you start with a high-quality DOT 4 fluid like Motul RBF600, your Dry BP = 617F and wet BP = 400F.
If you start with cheap-o DOT 3 brake fluid, your Dry BP = 400F and wet BP = 284F.
So even with prolonged service and water contamination, high-end fluid will outperform cheap fluid in terms of resistance to brake fade.
However, the rusting from water contamination will be a problem with both fluids.

How much rust do you want in your calipers? In the ABS pump?
What fluid did you start with?

In the end, it all depends on how much you care about your stopping distances & safety vs. saving a few bucks on maintenance.

HTH,
a

This is the way.

Brake fluid has been a service item for as long as we've had brake fluid. Only time you'll notice anything is if the ABS pump or a caliper fails...or you get the brakes hot and the next application the pedal goes to the floor. In other words, you only notice aged fluid when it's too late. Speaking of which, my e91 has been asking for fresh fluid for a year now - I really need to do that!

[pbonsalb]

At least for the M cars, BMW specifies 2 year change intervals. I usually change at around 2 years.

[BroDoze]

This is usually a $120-$140 job on most vehicles. I just had it done on 2 other vehicles. It’s kind of a PITA doing it yourself. I bought the bleeder and all that and still take it in. I’d rather install new brakes than do this.

[pbonsalb]

It would be $600 at a Porsche dealer…. I just did the 40k service on my 21 Cayenne S. Dealer wanted $3400. Cost me $400 in parts and a day of my time. Brake flush was part of it. 6 piston front and 4 piston rear calipers so 16 bleed screws. I nearly always DIY.