[GildaStofmnd]

They are gradually ruining everything that defines BMW. It’s appalling! It feels like the designers they hire are working for competitor brands.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by GildaStofmnd

They are gradually ruining everything that defines BMW. It’s appalling! It feels like the designers they hire are working for competitor brands.

Lol. Every car has carbon fiber. This doesn’t define anything.

[emulajavi]

Important to know

Durability?
Weight?
Resistance?

vs Carbon fiber.


From Google AI

Flax fiber and carbon fiber differ significantly in their properties. Carbon fiber is notably stronger, stiffer, and more durable than flax fiber, especially when considering weight. Flax fiber, however, offers advantages in terms of flexibility, cost, and sustainability.

Weight:
- Both carbon and flax fibers are lightweight compared to traditional materials like steel.
- Carbon fiber is generally denser than flax fiber, but its high strength-to-weight ratio makes it very appealing for applications where weight reduction is crucial.
- Flax fiber is known for its exceptional lightness, making it a competitive option in weight-sensitive applications.

Durability:
- Carbon fiber has superior tensile strength and stiffness, making it highly resistant to bending and breaking under stress.
- Flax fiber, while strong, has lower mechanical properties compared to carbon fiber.
- Carbon fiber is more brittle and can be susceptible to localized damage, while flax fiber tends to be more flexible and less prone to catastrophic failure under impact.
- Flax fiber's durability can be enhanced through hybridization with other materials like carbon fiber or epoxy resins.

Resistance:
- Carbon fiber offers high resistance to fatigue, meaning it can withstand repeated stress cycles without failing.
- Flax fiber, being a natural fiber, can be susceptible to moisture and temperature changes, potentially affecting its long-term performance.
- Carbon fiber generally exhibits good chemical resistance.
- Flax fiber's resistance to wear and tear can be a benefit in specific applications due to its low wear rate.

Other Considerations:
- Flax fiber is a more sustainable and environmentally friendly option due to its biodegradability and renewable nature.
- Carbon fiber is more expensive than flax fiber.
Hybrid composites combining carbon and flax fibers can offer a balance of performance and sustainability


In the end, as always happens it’s all more like ‘we changed for a cheaper part in order to make more money’ dressed like ‘we care about the environment’

[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by emulajavi

Important to know

Durability?
Weight?
Resistance?

vs Carbon fiber.


From Google AI

Flax fiber and carbon fiber differ significantly in their properties. Carbon fiber is notably stronger, stiffer, and more durable than flax fiber, especially when considering weight. Flax fiber, however, offers advantages in terms of flexibility, cost, and sustainability.

Weight:
- Both carbon and flax fibers are lightweight compared to traditional materials like steel.
- Carbon fiber is generally denser than flax fiber, but its high strength-to-weight ratio makes it very appealing for applications where weight reduction is crucial.
- Flax fiber is known for its exceptional lightness, making it a competitive option in weight-sensitive applications.

Durability:
- Carbon fiber has superior tensile strength and stiffness, making it highly resistant to bending and breaking under stress.
- Flax fiber, while strong, has lower mechanical properties compared to carbon fiber.
- Carbon fiber is more brittle and can be susceptible to localized damage, while flax fiber tends to be more flexible and less prone to catastrophic failure under impact.
- Flax fiber's durability can be enhanced through hybridization with other materials like carbon fiber or epoxy resins.

Resistance:
- Carbon fiber offers high resistance to fatigue, meaning it can withstand repeated stress cycles without failing.
- Flax fiber, being a natural fiber, can be susceptible to moisture and temperature changes, potentially affecting its long-term performance.
- Carbon fiber generally exhibits good chemical resistance.
- Flax fiber's resistance to wear and tear can be a benefit in specific applications due to its low wear rate.

Other Considerations:
- Flax fiber is a more sustainable and environmentally friendly option due to its biodegradability and renewable nature.
- Carbon fiber is more expensive than flax fiber.
Hybrid composites combining carbon and flax fibers can offer a balance of performance and sustainability


In the end, as always happens it’s all more like ‘we changed for a cheaper part in order to make more money’ dressed like ‘we care about the environment’

About 60% of what you just posted is flat out wrong though. Don't use AI for facts, its terrible at it.

Everything in red is either partially wrong, completely wrong, or considering the wrong material implementation.

[SterlingE30]

Just tack some M performance badges on it and the M bros will be all over it

[GildaStofmnd]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

Lol. Every car has carbon fiber. This doesn’t define anything.

lol, I’m aware that every car has carbon fiber. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that statement.

BMW’s history with the material and the beauty of the Carbon Fiber weave does define the brand’s identity going back to the 1980’s when they started using it. Customers pay extra when ordering their Cars or SUV’s for carbon fiber options such as spoilers, carbon roof on m car's, interior trim pieces. However, they are being replaced with unattractive plant-based fibers that the weave looks hideous, in my opinion. The photos on page 1 speak for themselves.

[My M3]

Not a fan in images, don't think my opinion will change though.
More than happy to stick with the carbon parts incl the roof that I have.

[OpenTopCruiser]

Taking a hard pass on this flax crap. If I want the carbon fiber look, I want the real deal, which is real carbon fiber

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by GildaStofmnd

lol, I’m aware that every car has carbon fiber. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that statement.

BMW’s history with the material and the beauty of the Carbon Fiber weave does define the brand’s identity going back to the 1980’s when they started using it. Customers pay extra when ordering their Cars or SUV’s for carbon fiber options such as spoilers, carbon roof on m car's, interior trim pieces. However, they are being replaced with unattractive plant-based fibers that the weave looks hideous, in my opinion. The photos on page 1 speak for themselves.

Ok so why go on about stuff that doesn’t even matter.
There’s zero about BMW that’s associated with carbon fiber now. This is 2025 not 1980. Maybe it was but as I said any and every car has carbon fiber. When you think carbon fiber you don’t think BMW and when you think BMW carbon fiber isn’t the first thing you think of.

[dmac@HI]

Reminds me of the incredibly poor choice Apple made when venturing away from their nice leather phone cases to some weird fuzzy vegan option that nobody liked. This looks like ass compared to real carbon. Hopefully they can get the look closer, and maybe it has a chance.

[Dav3]

I don’t even care that it’s plant fiber, the design pattern is absolutely disgusting

If BMW thinks they will be a trendsetter with this new design, they are completely wrong, no one is going to buy m performance parts that look like bamboo mats

[silvermanor]

Originally Posted by chrisado

How would you know that? I doubt you have ever left the trailer park

I live in East Van off Fraser. Super gay area.

I sell water at Wreck Beach too. Gayest beach in the country.

Are you done?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

More companies making things worse all under the guise of “saving the planet”. Al Gore fooled a ton of people - but none of his doomsday nonsense ever happened. Yet, many still believe in some apocalyptic scenarios that will never happen and the powers that be won’t stop making things worse for all of us despite this.

You don’t need to subscribe to apocalyptic scenarios to be more environmentally conscious.

At the same time, you don’t need to wholesale reject anything and everything because it tries or advertises be more environmentally concious.

That’s a whole other level of being “fooled”.

[chrisado]

Originally Posted by silvermanor

I live in East Van off Fraser. Super gay area.

I sell water at Wreck Beach too. Gayest beach in the country.

Are you done?

Whats your point in the context of the article?

[johnbucur]

I work at a company that does research on plant based biomaterials.

I can tell you firsthand - any concerns about performance related qualities… it will be great. Lightweight and strong.

As for moisture, this will not be a problem. They are not forming plants straight into the material. It’s processed and sealed.

BMW won’t spend years developing a material just for it to be half baked.

A lot of the negative anecdotes are just from the anti-change crowd. Most meaningless. The only thing that matters is if you like the way this material looks on your car. I’m halfway in and halfway out on this.

[julienjj]

I understand this is pure green washing, because the actual issue with carbon fiber is not the carbon fibre itself, it's the encasing into the epoxy material which is impossible to recycle because it does not react with pretty much anything.

Being organic moisture 100% will be an issue, as it is already with kevlar.

As silly as it sound... when you burn off the carbon fiber part, you can actually reclaim the carbon tow. It's the only way to split the 2 materials.

Fiberglass also exist... glass can be recycled.... but not the epoxy.

[johnbucur]

Originally Posted by julienjj

I understand this is pure green washing, because the actual issue with carbon fiber is not the carbon fibre itself, it's the encasing into the epoxy material which is impossible to recycle.

As silly as it sound... when you burn off the carbon fiber part, you can actually reclaim the carbon tow. It's the only way to split the 2 materials.

You’re on the right track with epoxy. It’s petroleum based. Carbon fiber also obviously a fossil base. It’s actually the manufacturing method where most emissions are from. Just imagine super hot massive ovens to make a little bit of carbon fiber. Energy requirements etc.

Every organic material is carbon, and exists along the chain in a different way. All they’re doing with the new material is finding something different along the chain that requires less energy intensive processing.

[cosmicamnesia]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Yes the M2CS roofs have this problem and it’s caused by body flex and it’s a known issue but few understand why it actually happens

Man, that's a shame, and from body-flex, no less. That is really odd, it's the first I'm hearing about it, don't know how I missed that one.
So have people just been replacing them when they start falling apart, or have they been swapping to the more traditional CF roof panels? Those traditional twill weave ones, or the "M-Performance" ones in the M2C, seem to be holding up fine, at least from what I've seen of older F8x cars. Outside of the occasional horror story because of bad seals, or just a bad installation.

Those M2 CS roofs are really different though. The M2C/CS are stiff little chassis', it's strange that they could even flex enough to cause damage to the panel like that.
Unless it's like what happened to the carbon roof I had installed on my old Z4M, where the chassis was stiffer than the carbon and it eventually started to eat away at the edges of the roof panel.
Or maybe it's the reverse with the CS panel, maybe that wide woven CF is so stiff that some subtle flex from the body is causing a type of "rubbing" and eating through some of the CF material.
I dunno, that is truly odd.

I am definitely curious what CS owners have been doing about that, or if BMW is helping at all now that alot of CS's are just hitting the end of warranty.

[W2k]

Originally Posted by johnbucur

The only thing that matters is if you like the way this material looks on your car. I’m halfway in and halfway out on this.

To add, whether it is also a full functional replacement for traditional carbon fibre. Sounds to me like it is. I for one really like the look so if it was down to aesthetics, I'd go for this.

The kneejerk reaction to stuff which happens to be more environmentally friendly is weird to me. There's no contradiction between performing better and being more efficient. Judge things on their own objective merits, not on whatever political views you assign to them, that's mostly just in your head anyway.

[johnbucur]

Originally Posted by W2k

To add, whether it is also a full functional replacement for traditional carbon fibre. Sounds to me like it is. I for one really like the look so if it was down to aesthetics, I'd go for this.

The kneejerk reaction to stuff which happens to be more environmentally friendly is weird to me. There's no contradiction between performing better and being more efficient. Judge things on their own objective merits, not on whatever political views you assign to them, that's mostly just in your head anyway.

Agree 100%. We should be stoked about a net improvement in product

[meanblueg80]

What’s going on with BMW..

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by emulajavi

From Google AI

Just say no to Google AI or risk parroting nothing more than what Google wants you to post and in doing so, looking like an idiot to everyone that actually knows what they're talking about.