[G30M]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Full disclosure: I tune in to F1 very infrequently. That's because, I think, and as one who does tune-in only rarely, most of what I've observed have been processions. That is, little in the way of what I think of as racing.

Having observed from afar the vagaries of total studs' results after changing teams, a total noob like myself feels compelled to ask the experts: is it more about the driver, the car, or some identifiable and communicable combination of the two?

My purpose in asking is that I'm a very technically oriented person, and I'd like to get enthused about F1 if there's space in there for me to do so.

All replies gratefully accepted!

so why is the answer both?

well let's look at Max, he can't win without a good car, he's even said he needs a new car or he won't show up at the paddock!

let's also look at Lando and Oscar in Monza, they both have the best car (see quali results) and last race neither of them could win. 2 races ago when Lando was P1 Oscar was a lap down or nearly a lap down.

definitely need both

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by G30M

so why is the answer both?

well let's look at Max, he can't win without a good car, he's even said he needs a new car or he won't show up at the paddock!

let's also look at Lando and Oscar in Monza, they both have the best car (see quali results) and last race neither of them could win. 2 races ago when Lando was P1 Oscar was a lap down or nearly a lap down.

definitely need both

Agreed.

Having the best car doesn't mean having the best results without the skill to do so.

To be fair, having a car that is 30-50 seconds faster makes the driver less relevant (See Max and Sergio Perez last 2 seasons) but if the field is close enough the driver absolutely matters.

Lando is barely a top 10 talent in a car that is 10 seconds faster than field and he can barely win a race.

[wizardofOz]

To me both, when you are on an F1 racing simulator game and you have the full driving kit at home like the paddles, steering, seat etc etc, you know its going to benefit you to accumulate the skill(experience) to understand the car/game before anything if you want to drive anything remotely like an F1.

The car also adds into this with all the technology and upgrades you now get for F1 each year, so both imho.

[dumptruck]

Drivers are replaceable. Is it the test pilot or the experimental aircraft?

[M3Sleeper]

Its obviously both its just a matter of what percentage of car VS driver.

I think its probably around 60% the car and 40% the driver.

If you asked the same question 25 years ago it would have been 60% driver and 40% car.

so to be safe I say 50/50. You can't win without a fast car and your not winning without a good driver. All the F1 drivers are good but Max is better. He has a better mindset, not a puss, he works hard, focused, and stays in his lane..not literally

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M3Sleeper

Its obviously both its just a matter of what percentage of car VS driver.

I think its probably around 60% the car and 40% the driver.

If you asked the same question 25 years ago it would have been 60% driver and 40% car.

so to be safe I say 50/50. You can't win without a fast car and your not winning without a good driver. All the F1 drivers are good but Max is better. He has a better mindset, not a puss, he works hard, focused, and stays in his lane..not literally

I think Max is good, but I honestly believe this fandom is overrating the guy. He had the fastest car over the year in 2021, and wasn’t on form at rhe beginning of the season until it was comfortably faster than MB/Lewis.

Fastest car in the second half of 2022, all of 2023 and the beginning of 2024 - he faces ZERO pressure from anyone because his teammates are pushovers or rookies, and when he does have pressure he is erratic, flustered, mistake prone and a danger to his peers.

The current regulars suit his driving style, as did the 2021 regulation change which was suited to benefit his car. But outside of that, he’s talented but he’s not otherworldly. He has a car that’s on Par with McLaren more so than anything else - Horner outright admitted that they had a pace advantage in a race Max didn’t win (and this was despite him having pole I believe)

He’s good, but the car is doing some heavy lifting as well. People act like he could win in a tractor when RB has been at WORST 2nd fastest on average each season, and outright thr fastest the majority of the last 4 seasons.

The car absolutely matters.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I think Max is good, but I honestly believe this fandom is overrating the guy. He had the fastest car over the year in 2021, and wasn’t on form at rhe beginning of the season until it was comfortably faster than MB/Lewis.

Fastest car in the second half of 2022, all of 2023 and the beginning of 2024 - he faces ZERO pressure from anyone because his teammates are pushovers or rookies, and when he does have pressure he is erratic, flustered, mistake prone and a danger to his peers.

The current regulars suit his driving style, as did the 2021 regulation change which was suited to benefit his car. But outside of that, he’s talented but he’s not otherworldly. He has a car that’s on Par with McLaren more so than anything else - Horner outright admitted that they had a pace advantage in a race Max didn’t win (and this was despite him having pole I believe)

He’s good, but the car is doing some heavy lifting as well. People act like he could win in a tractor when RB has been at WORST 2nd fastest on average each season, and outright thr fastest the majority of the last 4 seasons.

The car absolutely matters.

Exactly. You give any of the top 5-6 drivers the fastest car, they are winning most of the time. If Max is in the Ferrari and Leclerc is in the MAC this year, max ain’t winning. Just an example The car is a MAJOR factor these days in F-1. You don’t have teams 2-3 minutes ahead of each other just because driver. I wish the cars were closer in performance, so we may actually have some close races instead of all these snooze fest where you seeing a battle for 10-12 cause the top 5 are 3 minutes apart and the leader is 1:45 ahead of second. YAWN 🥱