[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm including it because ultimately it's up to them to decide what they like.

This is very simply the most important part

Different people connect with cars in different ways. So the best you can do is exactly what you seem to be doing... guide them to some good options and then let them choose.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Ergonomics need to be considered, I suspect they will prefer hard controls not touch screen everything no?

I agree. I suspect, even if they are not keen on Mazda, the physical controls vs the X1 could make the difference.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

At $50k your X1 should have been an M35I. The Mazda should not have had more power than that, lol.

Nope. A 28i. An M35i is $57,625 equipped the way his parents would want it.

[RM7]

IME, people are misrepresenting the gap between a “luxury” brand and a high end spec “regular” one, like a CR-V or RAV-4. At these levels, its much less than people make out, because people base this on cars they owned 10 or 20 years ago, all the time the gap is closing as they add more and more to the “regular” cars. I think as you go up in models, to say X7 or high end 100+K Mercedes SUVs, yes, you get quite a gap in every area compared to a 40K one, but at the 40-50K area just not that much more if anything in a “luxury” one and they are just riding on people’s perception and memories more than any actual gap.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

IME, people are misrepresenting the gap between a “luxury” brand and a high end spec “regular” one, like a CR-V or RAV-4. At these levels, its much less than people make out, because people base this on cars they owned 10 or 20 years ago, all the time the gap is closing as they add more and more to the “regular” cars. I think as you go up in models, to say X7 or high end 100+K Mercedes SUVs, yes, you get quite a gap in every area compared to a 40K one, but at the 40-50K area just not that much more if anything in a “luxury” one and they are just riding on people’s perception and memories more than any actual gap.

Agreed. To be honest, the gap between a low spec X5 and a high spec Grand Cherokee or Explorer is virtually non-existent. Arguably, the BMW is worse, lacking features and amenities that the more pedestrian cars have. A base X5 has plastic seats and dash, a loaded Grand Cherokee has nappa leather seats and dash and much more.

The premium and luxury makes are barely better than the mainstreams now. There are certain places where the luxury makes still hold an advantage, but they're a lot less in my.ber than they used to be.

Where BMW does still hold an advantage is top spec powertrains. Most mainstream rivals don't compete at that powertrain level anymore. Explorer ST is a great example, it tops out with a 400hp turbo 6. It has nothing to compete with the turbo V8 offerings from BMW, MB, or Audi. ST smokes the German 6 cylinder competitors, but has nothing to even attempt to compete with the V8s. And that's a damn shame

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

ST smokes the German 6 cylinder competitors, but has nothing to even attempt to compete with the V8s. And that's a damn shame

Smokes the German 6 cylinders in what regard?

C&D test results:

Explorer ST:
0-60 - 5.1s
1/4 mile - 13.8s at 100mph

X7 40i (mind you, much heavier than the explorer ST)
0-60 - 4.6s
1/4 mile - 13.4s at 102mph

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Agreed. To be honest, the gap between a low spec X5 and a high spec Grand Cherokee or Explorer is virtually non-existent. Arguably, the BMW is worse, lacking features and amenities that the more pedestrian cars have. A base X5 has plastic seats and dash, a loaded Grand Cherokee has nappa leather seats and dash and much more.

This has always been the case though. High trim versions of old 90's/2000's the Nissan Maxima, Honda Accord, Mazda 6, etc. were all VERY nice and well optioned compared to the base (even mid-tier) models of the 3er, C-Class, and A4.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

This has always been the case though. High trim versions of old 90's/2000's the Nissan Maxima, Honda Accord, Mazda 6, etc. were all VERY nice and well optioned compared to the base (even mid-tier) models of the 3er, C-Class, and A4.

I remember back in ~2010 I was shopping for a car for myself and was trying to pick between a loaded accord coupe or a used Lexus IS350. I felt the Honda was quite good, but ultimately what put the Lexus above the Honda for me was an overall better feeling of quality (even if it wasn't significantly better) and the powertrain (3.5L V6 pushing 300hp) and it felt more refined.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I remember back in ~2010 I was shopping for a car for myself and was trying to pick between a loaded accord coupe or a used Lexus IS350. I felt the Honda was quite good, but ultimately what put the Lexus above the Honda for me was an overall better feeling of quality (even if it wasn't significantly better) and the powertrain (3.5L V6 pushing 300hp) and it felt more refined.

This. People get distracted by trinkets and check boxes, there's a certain heft to a properly built car.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I remember back in ~2010 I was shopping for a car for myself and was trying to pick between a loaded accord coupe or a used Lexus IS350. I felt the Honda was quite good, but ultimately what put the Lexus above the Honda for me was an overall better feeling of quality (even if it wasn't significantly better) and the powertrain (3.5L V6 pushing 300hp) and it felt more refined.

Exactly. That's ultimately the difference between the loaded version of a mainstream model and a premium car...how's solid they feel. I bought an 08 IS back then as well and it was SO quiet and solid feeling. Unfortunately that's fallen off a bit though. Even a modern day IS feels a bit hollow in the door cards, and all of the plastics are starting to feel harder and scratchy (same with BMW, MB, and Audi).

[wtwo3]

Well, it was a long day, but we finally have a winner.
I spent the week researching and communicating with multiple dealers for each brand, trying to get the best deals.

Lexus NX 350:

MSRP: $52,279
Discount: $3,000
Selling Price: $49,729

My parents found it comfortable, with good fit and finish, and a well-thought-out interior layout. The drive was relatively smooth, but very very uninspiring. The powertrain felt like it was stuck in molasses - Every input—throttle, steering, everything—felt slow and heavy, as if the car was annoyed we were disturbing its slumber.
Price was another issue; it was the most expensive option of the three. Still, it was a quiet and comfortable ride, and my parents’ history with Toyota/Lexus kept the brand’s reputation for quality and reliability in the back of their minds.
Since it was the first car we drove that day, we didn’t fully realize how lazy it felt until we moved on to the Mazda.

Mazda CX-5:

MSRP: $42,815
Discount: $1,825
Selling Price: $40,990

The Mazda’s interior felt on par with the Lexus, but there was one major drawback that almost made it a non-starter: the seats were hard and uncomfortable. It felt like they spent the cushioning budget on the soft, squishy armrests and ran out when it came to the seats.
Another downside was the lack of a panoramic roof. After experiencing it in the Lexus, my parents loved the airy, open feeling it gave the cabin, and they missed that in the Mazda.
However, the drive itself was a big step up from the Lexus. Everything was noticeably more responsive. Acceleration was strong, the car handled really well. And of course there was the added bonus of it being the cheapest option of the three.

BMW X1:

MSRP: $49,280
Discount: $5,558
Selling Price: $43,722

When we first walked into the dealership, things got off to a shaky start. We immediately saw an XM with a $190k sticker price, and my dad started questioning what we were even doing at such an expensive place. I reminded him that I had already negotiated a great deal on the X1, but he was convinced the dealer would tack on a bunch of extra fees. After all, how could a place selling $190k cars also have a $43k one, right?

One of the first things my parents noticed was how much roomier the X1 felt compared to the others. The light-colored interior, panoramic roof, and center console design all helped make the cabin feel extra spacious. Build quality and materials were also impressive for the price point.
Seat comfort was somewhere between the Lexus and the Mazda — not as plush as the Lexus but better than the Mazda.
Once we hit the road, that’s when the X1 really shined. It felt like an absolute rocket compared to the others. It was nimble, light on its feet, and just a bit sharper and livelier than the Mazda. When we weren’t pushing it, the ride stayed smooth and quiet.
The only real complaint we had was the screen-based controls. It’ll take some getting used to for my parents — honestly, even for me. I'm so used to BMW’s iDrive controller, and that's missing in the X1, meaning you’re forced to use the touchscreen for everything.

We talked through the pros and cons of each car, and ultimately, my parents decided they liked the X1 the most.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

We talked through the pros and cons of each car, and ultimately, my parents decided they liked the X1 the most.

Attachment 3719682

Congratulations to them! Hope it is a definite keeper.
Report back and let us know their impressions after a year of ownership!
Too bad about all the ridiculous screens :-/

[slilley]

Thanks for sharing this story and the feedback on each of the options. I enjoyed it! You are a good son.

[Alfisti]

Yeah this was an interesting read, enjoyed it. A little confused though, I always had the CX-5 as a CRV/Rav 4/Rogue competitor but it sounds like it is size down no? I realise the X1 and NX have grown in their latest guise but they're still smaller than that mainstream group i listed no?

I am stunned at the price of the Lexus, that is a lot of money for a vehicle that size. What's the mid size LX worth then jesus H?

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yeah this was an interesting read, enjoyed it. A little confused though, I always had the CX-5 as a CRV/Rav 4/Rogue competitor but it sounds like it is size down no? I realise the X1 and NX have grown in their latest guise but they're still smaller than that mainstream group i listed no?

I am stunned at the price of the Lexus, that is a lot of money for a vehicle that size. What's the mid size LX worth then jesus H?

They are all within inches of each other...interior volume similar as well.

RAV4 - 180.9"
CRV - 184.8"
Rogue - 183"
CX-5 - 180.1"
NX - 183.4"
X1 - 177.2"

[tturedraider]

Congratulations to your parents and good on you for helping them!! I’m not the least bit surprised to hear the BMW outclassed the others when it came to the actual driving. BMW has some kind of voodoo when it comes to powertrains and they are hard to beat when it comes to handling and driving dynamics!! Makes me think of that old saying, BMW horses are stronger than other horses!!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

They are all within inches of each other...interior volume similar as well.

RAV4 - 180.9"
CRV - 184.8"
Rogue - 183"
CX-5 - 180.1"
NX - 183.4"
X1 - 177.2"

I am still confused. Where does the RX fit in all this? I had it like this ........

NX/X1/HRV etc

then these guys all about the same same size;

XC60/X3/GLC/RAV4/CRV/Rogue/CX5/RX350/RDX

There's a solid 7 or so inches between the X1 and the CRV, that's a class size jump.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I am still confused. Where does the RX fit in all this? I had it like this ........

NX/X1/HRV etc

then these guys all about the same same size;

XC60/X3/GLC/RAV4/CRV/Rogue/CX5/RX350/RDX

There's a solid 7 or so inches between the X1 and the CRV, that's a class size jump.

X3 is technically the competition to the GLC and Q5, however the X1 in this new gen has become a bit of a tweener. Slightly smaller in length but great interior volume (FWD based platform vs the RWD based X3). The Lexus RX is definitely mid-size at 192.5 inches...someone looking for an X5 or a GLE (both around the 192-194" length).

[Alfisti]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok I had the RX a size too small, that makes more sense.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

X3 is technically the competition to the GLC and Q5, however the X1 in this new gen has become a bit of a tweener. Slightly smaller in length but great interior volume (FWD based platform vs the RWD based X3). The Lexus RX is definitely mid-size at 192.5 inches...someone looking for an X5 or a GLE (both around the 192-194" length).

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok I had the RX a size too small, that makes more sense.

I guess technically the RX has grown to be a competitor with the X5, at least on the outside. In my mind though, it still competes more with the X3. I consider the X5 to be a much more substantial vehicle than the RX. I guess I would have to make an exception to that thought process for the RXL, which competes with the X5 with regard to having a third row seat. The RX may, in fact, compete more with the X5 in reality than it does in my mind. I haven’t been in the latest RX, but in the previous generations their interiors felt more X3 size than X5 size.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I guess technically the RX has grown to be a competitor with the X5, at least on the outside. In my mind though, it still competes more with the X3. I consider the X5 to be a much more substantial vehicle than the RX. I guess I would have to make an exception to that thought process for the RXL, which competes with the X5 with regard to having a third row seat. The RX may, in fact, compete more with the X5 in reality than it does in my mind. I haven’t been in the latest RX, but in the previous generations their interiors felt more X3 size than X5 size.

The new RX has basically the same front and rear legroom as the X5, a bit less cargo volume, and it's more narrow (probably why it feels smaller/tighter on the interior). In reality I'm not sure if people are cross shopping the two. The RX is more in line with the X3 as far as pricing. Much like the NX, the RX falls into the tweener category. I don't think Lexus cares to keep direct competition models with the Germans...just look at their pricing and engine choices and you can clearly see they have a different mission.

[Alfisti]

Wait, if the NX was 50K and an X3 and RX are price aligned, what are they going for?