[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The Cayman S should be compared to the standard Vette. They're both 2 seat mid-engine sports cars. A Cayman is not built worse than a same year 911 and it certainly isn't less in terms of quality of materials.

Gee I dunno, there's a hell of a power gap.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

any car will eventually feel old as you get used to it. Then you move on to the next thing and at some point you miss some characteristics about it. The key to this is having a different car to daily drive and taking out the nice car only for leisure. If i drove my gt3 every day i'd probably start hating it, noticing all the flaws, the stick is weightier than the bmw ones and a chore in stop and go, etc etc.

the other issue is that you get diminishing returns as you move up in the car world. You have cars like the GR86 which is one of the most fun cars i've ever driven, and its costs 30k. My GT3 is certainly not delivering 6x more fun. And i'd also guess a bugatti chiron isn't delivering 5x the fun of a modern entry level exotic

I have only been fortunate enough to be the 2 car situation once in my life, and I will agree it did tend to preserve the specialness of the special car, but at the same time, I never drove the special car and eventually it did become less special anyways.

Life is short maybe its ok to enjoy the honeymoon period over and over again, expensive though!

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The 911 is still more sports car than GT, it leaves the GT cars for dead around corners, it's just practical and refined but it has the cornering chops the heavier and larger cars on that list do not.

The vette is the comparison I was after, so let's call it $75K for a 3LT after discounts, a 911S is damn near double that no? My issue with the vette is it is ugly, really big car with less practicality and no 2+2 but if those things don't bother you it is a no brainer.

The only thing 911 has that gives it any sports car points is a manual. It's just hard to argue the car with a backseat, the car that lets you add massive amounts of leather everywhere, the car that has a moonroof... That car is a sports car and not a touring car? Nah man.

The C8 is ugly. No doubt about that. And compared to previous generations they hurt practicality. But big? It's 4 inches longer and 3 inches wider than a 992. I hate to be the guy to tell you this, but 4" isn't a lot.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The only thing 911 has that gives it any sports car points is a manual. It's just hard to argue the car with a backseat, the car that lets you add massive amounts of leather everywhere, the car that has a moonroof... That car is a sports car and not a touring car? Nah man.

But that is the ENTIRE point of it. It can do all that but when you hustle it, is IS a sports car, it is going to leave every car on that list other than the vette and the AMG GT (which are sports cars) for absolute dead in terms of handling and enjoyment when you throw it around a little.

My 997 is obviously a bit more raw but yeah, that's why I bought it. On Saturdays I throw the wife and kids in it with a picnic basket in the frunk, we drive enthusiastically through rural roads, go for a hike, eat lunch, drive back top down and again enthusiastically. On a Sunday I can go alone and drive at 9 tenths on some abandoned back road and it is definitely a sports car, not a GT car. I cross shopped an XKRS Jag, Mustang S550 PP2, Gran Turismo and E92 M3 and all 4 felt heavy and cumbersome compared to the 911.

If I did not need back seats I would have likely gone with a Z4M and if the GT350 came in a drop top I may have been tempted to go that route.

[gatorfast]

While the $149K price on its own does sound crazy compared to recent years, I actually think it makes complete sense when compared to its place in the market. M3/M4s are approaching $100K now and true exotics like Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, etc are still significantly higher priced than Porsche. So with that context, the $150K Carrera S sounds about right.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Gee I dunno, there's a hell of a power gap.

The standard C8 does lower 11s@120-122 and the Cayman S PDK upper 11s@117-118mph. On a road course, it's a driver's race, IMO. Plus, you can tune the S if you want a lot more power and get real close to that C8.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

While the $149K price on its own does sound crazy compared to recent years, I actually think it makes complete sense when compared to its place in the market. M3/M4s are approaching $100K now and true exotics like Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, etc are still significantly higher priced than Porsche. So with that context, the $150K Carrera S sounds about right.

I do kinda agree here, especially when you consider inflation. Back in 2000, a 911 S was a $72000-80000 car. That's $136k-143k in todays money and those cars had NOTHING on the features, safety, and performance of today's 911.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

While the $149K price on its own does sound crazy compared to recent years, I actually think it makes complete sense when compared to its place in the market. M3/M4s are approaching $100K now and true exotics like Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, etc are still significantly higher priced than Porsche. So with that context, the $150K Carrera S sounds about right.

This is kinda my point. M4 at 100K makes even less sense to me tbh. A fucking loaded minivan is $65K.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

But that is the ENTIRE point of it. It can do all that but when you hustle it, is IS a sports car, it is going to leave every car on that list other than the vette and the AMG GT (which are sports cars) for absolute dead in terms of handling and enjoyment when you throw it around a little.

My 997 is obviously a bit more raw but yeah, that's why I bought it. On Saturdays I throw the wife and kids in it with a picnic basket in the frunk, we drive enthusiastically through rural roads, go for a hike, eat lunch, drive back top down and again enthusiastically. On a Sunday I can go alone and drive at 9 tenths on some abandoned back road and it is definitely a sports car, not a GT car. I cross shopped an XKRS Jag, Mustang S550 PP2, Gran Turismo and E92 M3 and 4 felt heavy and cumbersome compared tot he 911.

If I did not need back seats I would have likely gone with a Z4M.

By that token my X5 is a sports car because it feels almost like a sports car when you hustle it. So is the M8, tand anything else like that. It all depends on where you draw your line. To me, 911 is just the smallest GT car, not some amazing paradigm breaking car.

[ShocknAwe]

Not so sure about any of that. A base 964 in 1990 cost around $70k US. That's what, $170k today?

They've always been expensive.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Mech Spec

The Emira is an interesting alternative to the 718, but when I was exploring buying an Evora, the lack of any semblance of dealer network really made it hard to justify going that route.

Thinking of selling my minty low mile gated R8 for an Emira, but it would probably be the wrong move in the long run.... Gated R8's are appreciating while the Emira is likely to depreciate....but, man I want one!!!

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The standard C8 does lower 11s@120-122 and the Cayman S PDK upper 11s@117-118mph. On a road course, it's a driver's race, IMO. Plus, you can tune the S if you want a lot more power and get real close to that C8.

A 718 GT4 runs 12.1 and the same lap times as a C8 z51 (which ran an 11.3), per car and driver. I'd have a hard time believing the S is faster than the GT4...

[RM7]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

While the $149K price on its own does sound crazy compared to recent years, I actually think it makes complete sense when compared to its place in the market. M3/M4s are approaching $100K now and true exotics like Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, etc are still significantly higher priced than Porsche. So with that context, the $150K Carrera S sounds about right.

Yep. People didn't blink an eye when their home values doubled...but when everything else catches up, they lose their mind.

[bosstones]

Dealership nearby has a '75 Targa on display, complete w/ window sticker. Unfortunately, there isn't a direct compare since the current Targa is a 4 GTS starting at 190k. Base
Carrera Cab is 128k.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by x622

"I'd rather overheat than blow a tranny"

You can do both at the same time in Bangkok.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Socal_R8

Thinking of selling my minty low mile gated R8 for an Emira, but it would probably be the wrong move in the long run.... Gated R8's are appreciating while the Emira is likely to depreciate....but, man I want one!!!

nah supercharged toyota v6 vs euro v8

if you are all about the handling and steering feel then maybe, but if engine sound and character matter you wont be happy with that move, not to mention the potential reliability headaches

[vbb]

Originally Posted by RM7

Yep. People didn't blink an eye when their home values doubled...but when everything else catches up, they lose their mind.

This is also a good point. People's salaries may not have increased by much, but assets (homes, primarily) certainly have, so goods (cars) have also gone up. Still, $100K still SEEMS like a huge threshold for a vehicle, and when your basic 911S is $150K and up, it SEEMS like the cars have gone completely out of reach for all but the top earners.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Davil

You can do both at the same time in Bangkok.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by baege

nah supercharged toyota v6 vs euro v8

if you are all about the handling and steering feel then maybe, but if engine sound and character matter you wont be happy with that move, not to mention the potential reliability headaches

yeah, I think it is just my fascination with the 458 look....


If I was in the market for a new $100K sports car....this would top the list

[baege]

Originally Posted by Socal_R8

yeah, I think it is just my fascination with the 458 look....


If I was in the market for a new $100K sports car....this would top the list

it is a beautiful car for sure

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by c1pher

It’s funny you mention this. I’ve owned three 911s. First one was 991.2, second one I was offered an allocation so got to build my own 992. I liked it but kept missing the 991.2. So I traded the 992 and eventually found a 991.2 that was close to what I wanted.

I think although Porsche already turns one of the highest profits of all marques, the Covid era made them realize people were willing to pay even more and the dealer was getting the money, not Porsche. The thing is the prices have increased and the dealers are still doing ADM, mandatory PPF, ceramic, tire insurance, watch purchase etc especially for the GT cars. It seems like they can’t move vehicles so now are offering discounts on the commoner Porsches like Macans and Cayennes.

Porsche is trying to differentiate the 718 from the 911 and taking the 911 in more of a luxury direction or at least it seems so. I owned a 718 4.0 and regret selling it because it is that special. But my 991.2 GTS is an incredible car and has a number of extras like rear steer, PDCC etc that Porsche purposely won’t offer on the 718. But the 718 sounds good, revs high, handles incredibly, shifts awesome….pure sports car.

I've owned 3 911s (991.2S 6MT, 991.2 Carrera T PDK, and my current 2013 991.1S which had a sticker close to 150K (yes for a 2013 - Paint to sample, leather everything, Sports Chrono, PDCC, PCCB and now just over 7K miles)). My wife also had a 991.1C4S cabrio, and we have also owned a Cayenne Diesel, 2 Macan S', 1 Macan GTS, a 2006 Cayman S, 2019 Cayman GTS, and 2 718 GT4s). We have owned many of them. They are great cars but now I don't see the value in a 175-200K 992. The quality of the 992 like most Porsche cars has taken a decent downturn. The interiors are much more brittle, parts are cheaper (more Audi which are much lower price points), and the cheap black plastic doesnt sit well with me. Only ones I desire are GT cars. Overall, I find the price points to be high, but also there are options out there that are as good or better than the basic 911s all while being materially less expensive. The advantage I always thought Porsche has was worth the 20-30K, but that delta is now more like 60-70K. Cars like the C8 z51, C8 Z06, C8 ZR1, M3/4 CS, M4 CSL, M3/4 Comp, M3/4 base, M2, GT350, and AMG GT all can do some of most of what the 992 does for less money in most cases. I recently bought a G80 M3 CS and much like the M5CS (that was picked over a GT3 Touring and Huracan STO in EVO COTY) it really shows you that BMW still makes the best sport sedans that go toe to toe with the best sports/exotics or beats them (ie it takes a 200K+ 992.2 GTS to match what the CS offers at 135K).

I wrote this in another thread but Porsche desperately wants to have the came clout and cache that Ferrari has. They have wanted to move the 911 upstream, and they have, but they are no Ferrari and never will be. While they have the beg and discount cars like a 918 Spyder or CGT, Ferrari can sell out whatever limited or special edition car before anyone even sees it. Porsche simply does not have that ability yet.

[c1pher]

BMW has definitely stepped up their game the past few years. My G87 M2 was awesome and I’m now in an M850i as my DD. It has a lot of the features that are options on the 911 and is just as nice outside and inside.